CVA Hawken Question

[Eddie2002]

My regular shooter is a CVA Hawken cap lock and I'm wondering about it's age. It has a brown barrel marked with "Connecticut Valley Arms", "Black powder only " and "Spain" with no proof marks. Serial number is 49*63 with no date or "K" for a kit. I know there's a lot of information available on the Mountain Rifle but can't find squat on dating the CVA Hawken. Just wondering if anybody could supply an approximate manufacturing date or at least the first year CVA offered the Hawken.
Thanks All

[Black Powder Bill]

How long have you owned it?

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[indian joe]

My regular shooter is a CVA Hawken cap lock and I'm wondering about it's age. It has a brown barrel marked with "Connecticut Valley Arms", "Black powder only " and "Spain" with no proof marks. Serial number is 49*63 with no date or "K" for a kit. I know there's a lot of information available on the Mountain Rifle but can't find squat on dating the CVA Hawken. Just wondering if anybody could supply an approximate manufacturing date or at least the first year CVA offered the Hawken.
Thanks All

Eddie my CVA's (several of them) are 1987 imports (dealer got a bulk buy I think) anyway these start the serial number with the year ..87 space then a six digit number ...a couple branded Dikar spain, a couple Connecticut Valley Arms, got one low number barrel with a 00xxx serial dont know whether its later or earlier I found these things hard to resist at the time, a kit gun for 120 bucks and a spare barrel for 50 !?... not the purtiest guns but never had one that wouldnt shoot right up there with the best

[Eddie2002]

BP Bill, I've had it for about ten years. Picked it up at a local gun show for $75.00 with the trigger assembly set too deep in the stock so it wouldn't fire. It had the reddish factory colored finish on it and the wood still had the machine marks on it from chiseling it out of the blank, saying it was as rough as a cob would be generous.

Indian Joe, I'm thinking mine is an earlier import, the serial number doesn't have a separate date stamp or code on it just the five digit serial number. It doesn't have the double "00" most CVA serial numbers start with either. I know the later models were marked "Hawken" next to the rest of the stuff on the barrel. I also found one thread that said the first year of production for the CVA Hawken was 1981 which seems a little late to me. Maybe that's when they started to stamp "Hawken" on the barrel, don't rightly know much about them and would think there would be more information out there since that model been around for a while. I'm a sucker for them also and will still pick one up at the drop of a hat if the price is right. Anyways thank for the replies, I'll keep looking around trying to find an answer.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I have one. The barrel is marked: Connecticut Valley Arms, Inc. Black Powder Only .50 Cal. Spain Hawken. Serial # Is 392xxx. Purchased from a major distributor in about August, 1987 as a nicely finished rifle with blue barrel. A very accurate rifle. I later bought a T/C Hawken as it seemd just a bit higher quality, but the CVA is the more accurate.

DG

[FLINTNFIRE]

Not sure on dating by serial number but some of the imports have marks or letters that relate to dates of manufacture , I owned a few CVA they shot fine , Have a TC new englander and have gave away a TC hawken and renegade along with a Traditions buckskinner , I know TC put the K in front of serial numbers to show it was a kit as factory finished had the warranty and kits did not have the same warranty.

[Black Powder Bill]

I have CVA product flyers from 1973-81-89 and a wholesale price guide from 1973.

There are all kinds of part numbers. Some of those bbl. Number may be a part numbers

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[mooman76]

CVA's manufacturer did not incorporate the dat code into the serial number until the 80s, I believe the late 80s. They also did not have a "K" designator for kit.

[Eddie2002]

Thanks for all the information, I'll give it an educated guess for it's manufacturing date as being somewhere between late 70's and early 80's. No proof marks and no date code or "00" on the serial number dates it before mid 80's. There is no "Hawken" on the barrel after "Spain"either which seems to indicate it's an earlier one also. That along with what appears to be a factory browned barrel and five digit serial number makes it appear to be an earlier manufacture. Seems to be almost impossible to accurately date anything made by CVA in their first few years but it was worth a try.

[Black Powder Bill]

Remember this admit seems.all muzzleloaders are Hawken.

Many look like but are not name Hawken.

I have a CVA Hunter Hawken

CVA also sold a Mountain rifle

Along side a dozen others


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[Eddie2002]

BP Bill, I know about all the different front stuffers CVA has made and the rifle I'm asking about is a Hawken, there's no doubt about it. Thanks again.

Just spotted this Mountain Rifle on Gunbroker mislabeled as a Hawken. Not a bad deal for what looks like a second series .50 caliber cap lock. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/892864331

[FLINTNFIRE]

Not a bad looking rifle , was cruising gunbroker last week saw a Hawkin with a Douglas barrel was showing the browning on the barrel worn mostly off but not a bad looking gun , sent a email asking on bore condition , seller replied next morning it was sold , well for $300 I knew I should have picked it up .

Your CVA may have been a kit gun , as browsing online it seems some say the CVA kits had no date codes or such and I remember having a CVA kit in the earlier 70's and it had some heavy machining marks on the barrel that by the time it was smoothed and browned would have wiped out any stampings other then the deeper ones for model .

I have a gun I bought pretty cheap a few years ago locally , was told it was a Hawken but it has the English sporting lock and a shotgun butt with a single trigger , wrong screw holding hammer on and sear spring was not tempered correctly , looks like a R.E.Davis lock but is made different on internals and lock plate size , have yet to find a screw to fit it , and no marks on barrel as to who made the barrel or the gun , same with the lock no stampings or engravings of any kind .

Something among all the projects to get done .

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Eddie,

I have the CVA Hawken listed as 1981 introduction, available in 50 and 54 cal. percussion and flintlock with a 1" x 28" barrel with a 1:66 twist.

I have a St. Louis Hawken listed with an option of 1:66 or a 1:48 twist barrel, in 50 (Percussion of Flintlock), 54 Percussion, 58 Percussion, and 12 gauge full choke Percussion. Also a 50 caliber Left Hand Percussion. This is from the 1989 Catalog not listed as new, unknown introduction date.

And the new Hunter Hawken Rifle with a 1:66 twist 28” x 15/16” barrel in 50 or 54 caliber Percussion, and a Hunter Hawken Carbine with a 1:48 twist 24” x 15/16” 50 caliber Percussion barrel. This was also from the 1989 Catalog, so 1989 would have been the introduction.

Hope this helps, AntiqueSledMan.

[Eddie2002]

SledMan, thanks a whole lot for the information, it confirms some of the stuff I found elsewhere. Seems the CVA Hawken was introduced in 1981 both from what your documentation says and from other sources. Starting around 1987 the date or date code, proof marks and rifle type like Hawken or Frontier were added to the information on the barrel. I'm going to guess that my rifle was manufactured in the early 80's before 1987 when all the rest of the stuff was added. Need to check the rate of twist on my rifle, always thought it was a 1:48 but your info shows that it might be a 1:66, it looks like my barrel is 1 inch across the flats but need to mic it. Talk about going down a rabbit hole

[mooman76]

Hawken's were famous for their 1-48 twist, that's why most modern copies are the same. Not sure why CVAs weren't that way or at least at first. I think later on they did along with a few other twists.

[Eddie2002]

I think I've figured it out with the help of AntiqueSledMan. His said his catalog from '81 lists a Hawken cap lock in .50 caliber with a 1 inch x 28 barrel and a 1:66 twist. I just measured the barrel on my Hawken and it's 28 x 1 inch and to my surprise it has a 1:66 twist, fooled me. That would date it from the early 80's. Guess it's a little rarer than most and with the early twist I'll treat it with a little more respect. It's been a good round ball shooter so far. Thanks all for the help, it's been a fun rabbit hole to go down.

[indian joe]

SledMan, thanks a whole lot for the information, it confirms some of the stuff I found elsewhere. Seems the CVA Hawken was introduced in 1981 both from what your documentation says and from other sources. Starting around 1987 the date or date code, proof marks and rifle type like Hawken or Frontier were added to the information on the barrel. I'm going to guess that my rifle was manufactured in the early 80's before 1987 when all the rest of the stuff was added. Need to check the rate of twist on my rifle, always thought it was a 1:48 but your info shows that it might be a 1:66, it looks like my barrel is 1 inch across the flats but need to mic it. Talk about going down a rabbit hole

heres a few barrel markings to add some more confusion

Connecticut Valley Arms Spain (no model designation) 00xxx serial 15/16" x 28"
Black Powder Only 50 cal

Same again 54 cal (marked) Hawken 87 xxxxxx serial 15/16" x 28"

Dikar Spain 50 cal (Marked) Missouri 87 xxxxxx serial 15/16" x 28"
Blackpowder only

Dikar Spain 45 cal (Marked ) Kentucky 87 xxxxxx serial 7/8" x 32"
Blackpowder only

All above have been kit guns - the Dikar branded ones came in CVA boxes

Had a Pennsylvania rifle once, a 50 cal cap gun that I converted to flint it was a 7/8" x 42 " barrel an assembled rifle NOT a kit

All of these have been 1:66 twist .

I am of the strong belief that what we saw in Australia was production line seconds - bought/ brought in cheaply by one particular importer - every kit had something wrong or bits missing - my Pensylvania rifle and two 54 hawken barrels had lumps in the rifling where the drill for the end cap / under rib had almost perforated the rifling - the 50 missouri had a burred up muzzle where the tool they used for the crowning went awry - first Kentucky kit was missing the dovetail pieces and pins to pin the forend to the barrel (I didnt know any different till later and it shot fine without)

[indian joe]

Hawken's were famous for their 1-48 twist, that's why most modern copies are the same. Not sure why CVAs weren't that way or at least at first. I think later on they did along with a few other twists.

At the risk of raising everyones hackles I will say ------Hawken got it wrong and made it work - whoever set up CVA at the start knew their business with round ball better than the Hawkens (or anybody else for that matter)

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hey Joe,

I think all CVA kits had something wrong with them.
Anyone who could build one of these and make it look nice was a true craftsman.

AntiqueSledMan.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Your kit experience would be about what most found , missing pieces and kentucky rifle 2 piece stock with a gap that would take 2 of those brass pieces to fill so holes would line up .