Lee R.E.A.L. 50 cal Lubing w/ Blackhorn

[SoonerEd]

Just started casting maybe 3 months ago. Got some buddies helping me get started. Mainly focusing on lead procurement. This is my first post. So, take it easy on me. Since it is my first post, I'll include a little about myself. Got a source for WW at 20 cents per pound but is going to dry up soon. I'm running about 15% -19% trash, Fe, Zn, etc. Its got a little Linotype and Monotype mixed in. So, I'm trying to get all I can before its gone. So far I've got around 1,000 pounds of lead cleaned and poured into ingots. I've read a lot on this site over the past six months and learned alot. I've searched for information on lubing the R.E.A.L. bullet but cannot seem to find any information of my specific question. So, hear goes.

I've got a Thompson Center Omega 50 caliber for which I'm casting some 320 grain R.E.A.L. bullets. The rifle has a 1:28 twist and I shoot blackhorn powder. That stuff shoots really clean so I don't think I need to keep the fouling moist. At least I don't shooting saboted Hornady 250 FTX (same as Thompson Center boolits). I can shoot 10-20 shots with sabots without cleaning and maintain 1.5 MOA or less. But, this is my first adventure into shooting non-saboted bullets. I got about 100 keepers in my second attempt at using the Lee mould. The first were all remelted as they had rounded fill out. I found out the mould likes to be run hot. I have them separated by weight and they range between 316 to 318 grains. I culled out any that had any nicks in the base or were not formed square to the band. The alloy I'm using is 98% pure lead (well SOWW) and 2% Sn added.

I'm looking for options for lubing the bullet that would work to carry them in the field without much mess if possible. I have some white label lube in BAC and Carnauba Blue. Also, have some SPG. I thinks I have some Thompson Bore Butter somewhere if I can find it and it isn't so old its separated in the tube. But it is messy and what I'm trying to avoid if I can come up with an equal or better option.

Also, I've seen recommendations to use a felt over powder wad to help with accuracy. Is this of any value with Blackhorn and a 1:28 twist? I'm also assume the wad can be unlubed since I'm not shooting the holly black?

While I'm new to casting and not a ML guru, I'm not new to reloading. I would consider myself and intermediate to advanced reloader. Been loading for 25 years. Grew up around bench rest shooters and use many of their techniques for my varmint rifles. Mainly focus on bolt guns for accuracy but have others such as lever guns, rolling blocks, even a 45-90 Shiloh Sharps I hope to cast for and become proficient with some day. Load various pistol calibers and 12 gauge and 16 gauge shot shells. In all, load for about 30 calibers plus shotgun.

Suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[idahoron]

You are not going to be able to load a REAL that is made from wheel weights. Buy pure lead from ROTOMETAL. Trust me WW will get stuck in your gun.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Welcome Ed,

I usually cast with pure lead for muzzleloading, especially REAL bullets which get engraved while loading.

For lube stick to animal products and stay away from petroleum. Some people shoot REALs without any lube as the design is supposed to clean the bore as you load. Usually I smear a little bore butter on them, but if that's too messy try using a lubed wad instead. The wads shouldn't loose any lube if you squeeze them. For 50 cal you'll want a 14mm punch if you want to make them yourself, or look for some in stores.

Wads work well with my inline CVA but I've heard of people having trouble with flintlocks where the wad gets sucked back into the bore and can build up back there. So just be sure it leaves the barrel before loading another.

[idahoron]

Since you have a press I would paper patch bullets and not even worry about the REAL.

[metricmonkeywrench]

I have a CVA Wolf and except for the first 10 sabot rounds over Pyrodex RS I went and grabbed some Blackorn. It is now sporting the 209 Blackhorn breech plug and has seen nothin but BH ever since, I’m sold on its use.

I recently received a REAL mould and cast up some bullets out of pure lead. Loading and shooting was great, no special prep, I hand lubed with some Bore Butter over 90g of BH (no wads) and merrily shot away. I pulled the breach plug about 6 rounds in just to take a peek and it was pretty clean, ran a brush down just because and shot about another 4-6 just because I had them. Final cleaning was a breeze. I have some bees wax and really mean to cast up some more and pan lube them with some simple lube..

All in all it was a great day on the range with the ML.

[SoonerEd]

Is this even for stick on wheel weights? I even culled out the ingot looking ones that are more like COWW. I used the artist pencils and the lead is testing in the 6-7 bhn range best I can tell and I can easily scratch with my finger nail.

[SoonerEd]

Cannot seem to find any wads online. I've got a 14mm punch. What is a good material i can make them from i can get at hobby lobby, etc?

Thanks

[SoonerEd]

Want to do this someday but I know nothing of paper patching. When I get to that point I'll give it a try, especially in my 45-90. Thanks

[metricmonkeywrench]

COWW is more like a blend, the flat stick on I have read is more like pure, you really want pure lead for any ML bullet that touches the barrel/rifling. When in doubt buy known good. If you want to cast 44 or 45 bullets and use the appropriate sabot than the lead does not matter as much.

[SoonerEd]

What weight is your REAL with the 90 grains of BH? 90 grains is what I shoot with a harvester black crush sabot and a Hornady 250 grain FTX...same as the Shockwave, which is very accurate load in my rifle. Thanks

[SoonerEd]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Sorry, my omission/mistake it’s the 250g REAL over 70g of BH. The BH website load data doesn’t show anything for the Lee bullet. Not sure where I came up with the 70g start load. The 90g was for the Pyrodex with a the Scorpion sabot. I plan to bump up after I use set up the bullets with some real lube.

[725]

A tube of some sort will carry your pre-lubed REAL's with a minimum of mess. There is just no way to avoid some. I agree with the above in using an animal based lubed instead of anything petroleum based. To me the 70 gr's is about a good load, and felt wads, especially under REAL's make a difference. Got to experiment with powder levels and naked / dry / or lubed felt wads to see what works best. Good luck and welcome aboard.

[SoonerEd]

Sorry, my omission/mistake it’s the 250g REAL over 70g of BH. The BH website load data doesn’t show anything for the Lee bullet. Not sure where I came up with the 70g start load. The 90g was for the Pyrodex with a the Scorpion sabot. I plan to bump up after I use set up the bullets with some real lube.

Thanks for the reply. 90 grains of BH is what I load with a 250 saboted load and gives me around 1,850 fps. 70 should be a good starting load for the 320 but I'll probably start at 60 just to be sure. If you don't know BH is reduced around 10% by volume to a comparable Pyrodex or 777. I'll start low and work up in increments until I find an accurate load. I'm hoping I can get an accurate load in the 1,500-1,600 range.

I'm hoping I can get a good, soft expanding hunting load. While the 250 FTXs in sabots are very accurate, they dont seem to expand as much as I'd hoped. I shot one deer each of the last 3 years during muzzle loader season and two of them didn't make much of an exit hole. But, then again when they start out at .45 inches maybe I'm expecting more than is needed.

[Edward]

Leave the bore butter in the trash /get pure lead for target ,no more than 40-1(lead to tin )for hunting/ range lead will not work well (hard loading) . Crisco (no salt ) will get you started /bees wax (60-40) .The REAL engraves upon loading (Lee tells you to use pure ) for a reason and for hunting 40-1 keeps the conical on the powder while hiking in the woods (won"t strip rifling ) and move while pure for target works well. And for sure use a wad over powder (an unlubed 1/8 inch felt works ) best in all my guns /Lyman Great Plains is another great mold even better than Lee . BH 209 /an OE 2-3F works for all my muzzle loaders And reading further the REAL is not for shooting over 12-1300 FPS pure remember it will strip /so will 40-1 with that weight .You can not push either bullet as fast as a saboted pistol bullet . Think of how fast you would shoot a Sharps 1874 45/70or a RB (12-1300 FPS is it ) the Lee works to 150 yds maybe/the Great plains to 400 no problem . There is extensive testing on modern muzzleloading forum by a gentleman ( Id*****wis) shooting both examples short and long (800 yds)also youtube/Ed

[RU shooter]

For lubes with conicals there's several you can use and or try , Crisco or store brand shortening works good my pops used it for years in his TC with maxiballs , unsalted lard , a mix of beeswax and olive oil is also another and then there's bore butter so like it some (me) hate it . I believe TC has another version called T7 I know it smells different but have never used it as I'm mostly a round ball shooter . As for your alloy if it's stick on weights you should be fine no need to add that's extra tin though as it's probably got a small amount in it already . Good luck and welcome to our merry band of lead casters .

[mooman76]

I would think, especially using BH209 you could just lube the wads and get away with it. Should be a little less messy. Cary the wads in a small plastic bag. I have used range lead for REALs. It does work, just a little harder to start. I wouldn't want to use them for a long shooting session. Some people do opt for pentation over expansion of the bullet for hunting. After all it is a 1/2" hole and if you do your part, the deer will go down.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

Cannot seem to find any wads online. I've got a 14mm punch. What is a good material i can make them from i can get at hobby lobby, etc?

Thanks

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