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Thread: Cast 5.56/.223 AR-15 load testing video

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    WD91,
    Thanks for taking the time to make that video and posting it here.
    I enjoyed watching it.

    I've been down that road with the Lee 225 mold myself.
    I was shooting at 75 yards though and had larger groupings.
    This was with an AR15 1:9 twist.

    Some groupings were so large that all of them were not on paper.
    I was shooting around 2600-2700 fps though and was advised here to slo-o-ow them down, which I did.
    My groupings did improve but ultimately I was spending so much time on it with results I was not happy with.

    I tried various powders (748, BLC-2, IMR 4227, and 4064) and never really got the groupings I was hoping for.
    I even did weight sorting to help improve things.

    My objective was to get similar (better?) groupings than factory or jacketed reloaded ammo.
    For plinking at 50 yards, cast bullets (for me) would be fine. But if I wanted to shoot some steel at 100 yds, forget it.
    I can do that with jacketed reloads.
    I went back to jacketed bullets and got better results at higher fps.

    Thanks again for your fine video.
    I'll check out your other youtube flics.
    1A - 2A = -1A

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy
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    WD91
    I went to Youtube to check out your other videos and could not find them.
    I searched using WolfDog91 and no go.

    I ultimately found your stuff under the handle The Black Trapper.
    The universe is back in balance now. (grin)

    I'll check'em out.
    1A - 2A = -1A

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamity Jake View Post
    Stay with the 2015 add a dacron filler it will almost do away with the unburnt powder and improve groups.
    I shoot a Rock River AR with 24" heavy stainless 1-12 twist using NOE 70gr RN with 17.5 of 2015 and dacron
    Groups are 1 1/4" at 100 don't know the velocity. If I can I will post a pic of the target.

    Attachment 277726
    woah! excellent results!

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy
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    The problem I have with going down the Dacron route is two fold.

    1) will the Dacron foul the barrel at all? or is it incinerated instantly?

    2) I want to load 556 for CMP High power shooting formats. Typically I shoot around 125 or more rounds a week, and well over 1400 a season. I am really hoping there is a way that doesnt include measuring 1400 Dacron wads.


    However, with my 30 cals, Dacron has been great for hunting loads that I have been playing around with. But I only need a few dozen hunting loads.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master VariableRecall's Avatar
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    I'm loving your videos dude! Keep them up!

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy
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    Is dacron a concern for the gas tube?

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master
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    No it is not. At the pressures used and powders employed the Dacron does not melt. Instead it is broken into shorter fibers and is slightly scorched.

    Dacron filler does not need to be weighed. Just an appropriate amount separated, lofted, and placed in the case occupying all volume between powder and bullet.

    Said by a guy who has used a lot of it.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
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    WD91,
    Were you using gas checks with those boolits?
    1A - 2A = -1A

  9. #29
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    tomme boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35remington View Post
    Dacron filler does not need to be weighed
    In a 223 case it does matter.

    It doesn't matter till it does! One of my favorite quotes

  10. #30
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    I've fired thousands of 223s with dacron filler inumerousARs, M16s and other gas guns since the mid '70s without any dacron fouling. Never bothered to weigh any dacron filler. Did it ever matter, nope.

    I no longer load cast in 7-9" twist 223 ARs as I shoot farther than 50 yards and prefer the action to function reliably and the load hold at least 3 moa accuracy with 10 shots at 200 yards. Thus I use a 70 gr cast at 2300 fps out of my 12" twist AR, bolt guns and Contender.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I’ve never found weighing Dacron to matter in 223/556 either. Nor in anything else I’ve used it in.

    The whole point is to eliminate velocity variation from partially filled cases which cause variations in pressure and cycling reliability when run at the low end which is where the easily found accuracy occurs. Accuracy is a relative thing, but 3 MOA for five shots suits my purposes. I can do a little better than that without specializing anything and maintaining a decent production rate.

    I very much doubt I can do that for ten shots at 200 but that is not what these are for. Larry is more exacting than I am but I’m okay with that.

    What I am looking for is cycle reliability and reasonable accuracy to enable good practice ammo. When so loaded I am in the 1900-2000 fps range with a 60 odd grain bullet. When zeroed at 200 yards with M193 equivalent such velocities are essentially “on” or close enough at 100 yards, which suits my purposes just fine.

    If less fuss and bother with good enough accuracy is the goal abandon the idea of high speed in the usual 1-7 to 1-9 twist AR’s and run the guns gently. The ballistics are still fine for the most common usage for me which is familiarization and practice. A side benefit is you’ll have a much harder time wearing a barrel.

    Someday if the hoplophobes get their way that might be important....and it is probably somewhat important now.

  12. #32
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    I am getting 1.5" groups at 100yds with my AR 16" with a 1-7 twist at 2664fps. Probably better if I sorted the brass and sorted the bullets for defects. I have a 4'' steel plate at 200 yes I can hit every shot with it. 20.2gr imr4198. 65gr miha bullet. Gator copper check sized to 0.225" powder coated
    Last edited by tomme boy; 02-21-2021 at 08:47 PM.

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomme boy View Post
    I am getting 1.5" groups at 100yds with my AR 16" with a 1-7 twist at 2664fps. Probably better if I sorted the brass and sorted the bullets for defects. I have a 4'' steel plate at 200 yes I can hit every shot with it. 20.2gr imr4198. 65gr miha bullet. Gator copper check sized to 0.225" powder coated
    damn thats nice a few questions please
    -what alloy
    -any BHN info on alloy
    -what powder coat powder and procedure? (water quench?)
    -how did the action work? any failures?
    -any leading in gas system or barrel?
    -what length gas system?

    This is awesome, I may try to copy this and see how it goes

  14. #34
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    Virgin lino. Traffic purple from Smoke. One coat powder coat. Seated 2.247" to fit mags. 41 CCI primer. Carbine gas. Standard buffer.

    Wilson Arms stainless barrel 223 wylde chamber.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Nice video . Looking forward to seeing more

  16. #36
    Boolit Master



    Dieselhorses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    I've fired thousands of 223s with dacron filler inumerousARs, M16s and other gas guns since the mid '70s without any dacron fouling. Never bothered to weigh any dacron filler. Did it ever matter, nope.

    I no longer load cast in 7-9" twist 223 ARs as I shoot farther than 50 yards and prefer the action to function reliably and the load hold at least 3 moa accuracy with 10 shots at 200 yards. Thus I use a 70 gr cast at 2300 fps out of my 12" twist AR, bolt guns and Contender.
    How long is the 70 gr cast bullet? Don't wanna open a "can of worms" about twist rate but I was under the impression that heavier gr bullets required faster twist although the longer the bullet, the better it stabilizes in slower twist. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    The unexamined life is not worth living....Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body....USMC
    Fast is fine, but accuracy is FINAL!....Wyatt Earp

  17. #37
    Boolit Master Wolfdog91's Avatar
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    Wow happy to see my little post took off like it did lol. Guess it just took me actually shooting and not making the rounds and talking for 34min lol Thank u for all the kind words eveyone I'll try to respond to more of y'all ��. But all in all I think I'm in. The right track as I'm doing much better than alot if people said I would ! Hopefully the stuff I've ordered gets her in time and we can do a barrel cleaning video so see if their anything in other than in burnt powder

  18. #38
    Boolit Master Wolfdog91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    WD91,
    Were you using gas checks with those boolits?
    Sure am ! I fell the hard case gass check and PC give me a three layers effect ( little in the hard side for me to explain) that's gonna help with little project. Actually here the video I have in gas checking and sizing these same Boolits.

    And for those curious I've made videos documenting my entire process from making my Ingots allll the way to shooting if your curious in how I did everything ��

  19. #39
    Boolit Master Wolfdog91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    WD91
    I went to Youtube to check out your other videos and could not find them.
    I searched using WolfDog91 and no go.

    I ultimately found your stuff under the handle The Black Trapper.
    The universe is back in balance now. (grin)

    I'll check'em out.
    Lol yep that's me ! And before anyone says anything about my channel name...look eveyone was thinking it I just decided to cahne it to that so people could find me easier lol ��

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomme boy View Post
    Virgin lino. Traffic purple from Smoke. One coat powder coat. Seated 2.247" to fit mags. 41 CCI primer. Carbine gas. Standard buffer.

    Wilson Arms stainless barrel 223 wylde chamber.
    thanks I'm updating the database with entry 20, I think yours is now the best and most well documented 1:7 entry...how did the action cycle? and leading?

    did you do any experiments without gas checks?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check