Reloading EverythingTitan ReloadingWidenersLee Precision
Inline FabricationMidSouth Shooters SupplyLoad DataRepackbox
RotoMetals2
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: Velocity differences

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    23

    Velocity differences

    Happened to be out at my gunclub with my hunting rifle. A friend hauled out his chronograph and did what checks he needed done. Before he put it away I asked him to check my hunting loads. I use a Win M92 chambered in 38/40. Loading 18.3 gr of 2400 in both the jacketed 180gr hp and the Lee 180gr cast tc. Now the jhp went 1662fps and I was pleased that it should make a decent hunting load. Next we tried the 180gr Lee cast and powder coated, it chronoed at 1880fps. I was really impressed, not only does it shoot well, it really is close to what I want for a hunting load. Now has anyone else experienced this? A pc'd bullet going faster than a jacketed? I used same lot of powder, same lot of cases, same bullet weights. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Rcmaveric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    2,356
    Yes. Copper is harder and has a higher friction coefficient.

    PC may be faster or slower than lubed.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  3. #3
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    23
    Actually they were brass jackets from Montana gold.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Jim22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    590
    That impresses me as well. That slightly exceeds the performance of my .357 Magnum in a 16" barrel. Is that a bit hot for the M92?

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Superstition Mountains
    Posts
    208

    Cool

    ....That slightly exceeds the performance of my .357 Magnum in a 16" barrel. Is that a bit hot for the M92?
    Good question. I’m not aware of pressure-tested loads above SAAMI levels, although Ken Waters’ Pet Loads shows he developed .38-40 M92 loads with up to 22.0 grains of 2400 under a jacketed 180 - his max load at 1866 fps. He didn’t really recommend that load, and because it was developed over 45 years ago I personally wouldn’t use it with current lots of 2400.



    .

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master


    missionary5155's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Last trip to Arequipa... till April.
    Posts
    7,133
    From all I have read the nickel steel 92's were rated for the upper power Winchester jacket rounds they produced until WW2.
    Than figure in all the 92s that were made into 45 Colt and 44 Mag and no blowups I have read about.
    And if Ken Waters printed it I would trust it in a rifle that is in good shape.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


    missionary5155's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Last trip to Arequipa... till April.
    Posts
    7,133
    Velocities I have seen the same over our Crony. Cast always slips along faster. PC may also but I have not tested it toe to toe with Jackets.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim22 View Post
    That impresses me as well. That slightly exceeds the performance of my .357 Magnum in a 16" barrel. Is that a bit hot for the M92?
    Jim22
    No that's no where near max for a M92 it's near max for me. It's quite light.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

    Rcmaveric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    2,356
    After shooting many riffles for many years. I find I never enjoyed shooting full power loads.


    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    21,305
    Bkingnsmith

    How many of each load were chronographed?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  11. #11
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Bkingnsmith

    How many of each load were chronographed?
    Larry,in all truthfulness only fired 1 ea as I did not have that many along with me.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Moderator
    Texas by God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    14,335
    If the accuracy is there, that dog will hunt with either load. Your average velocity will probably be fairly close to your one sample. I’d like to see a five shot average of the two you have and add conventional lubed bullets to the trial. It would be interesting.

  13. #13
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    23
    Texas
    The accuracy is there and they do both print close to same point. I used the jacketed only one at a time because they haven't got a cannelure and the mag spring pushes into the case. I can crimp the pc boolits and load only those in the tube. Had I known what they ran vel wise, I would not have bothered to use the jhp. The old Lyman books don't have the velocity near what I'm getting with pc'd .


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    21,305
    Quote Originally Posted by Bkingnsmth View Post
    Larry,in all truthfulness only fired 1 ea as I did not have that many along with me.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    A one shot chronograph test gives no indication of anything other than the velocity of that one shot. Also the 1st shot of a test with a cast bullet, especially if the barrel is fouled by another load (in this case a jacketed bullet) almost invariably gives the higher velocity or one of the highest in a test string. Conversely, limited testing has indicated shooting a jacketed bullet in a barrel fouled with cast many times give the lowest velocity. Given the unknown ES of either load I would not take away too much from a 1 shot test of any load in comparison to any other load.

    While there is an apparent interesting difference the two loads may not be as different as this limited one shot test suggests.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  15. #15
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by Bkingnsmth View Post
    Happened to be out at my gunclub with my hunting rifle. A friend hauled out his chronograph and did what checks he needed done. Before he put it away I asked him to check my hunting loads. I use a Win M92 chambered in 38/40. Loading 18.3 gr of 2400 in both the jacketed 180gr hp and the Lee 180gr cast tc. Now the jhp went 1662fps and I was pleased that it should make a decent hunting load. Next we tried the 180gr Lee cast and powder coated, it chronoed at 1880fps. I was really impressed, not only does it shoot well, it really is close to what I want for a hunting load. Now has anyone else experienced this? A pc'd bullet going faster than a jacketed? I used same lot of powder, same lot of cases, same bullet weights. Thanks.
    What was the COAL on each, as well as Bullet length? The less case fill will change pressures drastically, changing velocity.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Quilcene, Washington
    Posts
    3,663
    I have found on my chronograph that Alox lubed CB's in rifles of several calibers with some exceptions seem to be about 10% faster than jacketed of the same size with the same powder charge. That Alox definitely makes a boolit more slippery. I haven't started PCing yet since I have a surplus of Lee Alox so I can't say much about the effect of PCing the same CB's.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Win94ae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    585
    "Fit is King!" Isn't that a saying around here? It is true, and that is why.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    You mentioned the jacketed bullet does not have a cannelure. You don't say what you are hunting but on a big deer that might not be a good choice as it is probably a bullet designed for 40 S&W and will not penetrate well. It will probably over expand and maybe even breakup at your velocities. I would stick with the cast bullet.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  19. #19
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    23
    The ranges I usually encounter are 50 to 100 yds so blowup is not a real concern, but yes I will be using the cast bullets exclusively from now on, as they will be loaded in the tube. The others have to be single loaded.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by bowfishn View Post
    What was the COAL on each, as well as Bullet length? The less case fill will change pressures drastically, changing velocity.
    Bowfishn:
    The oal of the jhp .620 the cast TC .595. Coal of the jhp 1.589 the coal of the TC 1.585


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check