Road to 1000 boolit batch

[guy_with_boolits]

Well, the time has come. I've made 100 round batches but its very inefficient when I can shoot those basically in an afternoon. I want to make the leap to a 1000 round batch.

The boolit will be an MP-452-200 hollow point with penta insert. Its a 4 cavity.

My casting experience so far has indicated to me the following challenges (sure to be an incomplete list:

-The sheer amount of boolit casting. I'm going to have to fill, shear sprue, open, shake out, and close that 4 cavity mold 250 times to get 1000. But it will probably be more like 300 times if I include the sure to be failed ones and "heating up" ones. This is not a single day session but I should be able to get it done over a few days. I'm not worried about the overall time as long as I dont WASTE time.

-Keeping the mold clean. After 100 rounds my brass mold has lots of lead specks (not tiny, but not huge) on the mating faces and near the pins. This is not going to make things go smoothly. I need to figure out a way to avoid this happening. I think dipping the mold in the molten lead to get/keep it hot is a major contribute to this. I think I need to move to a hotplate for the mold.

-Lubing the mold cavities..I need to figure out a good way to carbonize/lubricate the cavities to give me as much help as possible dropping boolits. I guess just a sooty flame would work.

-Lubing the mold pins/sprue plate, etc.. I need to make sure I am doing this right, and do it repeatedly as needed during the 1000 mold batch.

-Powder coating or Alox: I need to decide. I have not tried this boolit with ALOX, but I would imagine it would probably work. I think ALOX would actually be easier to do en-masse than powder coating. My PC process is not bad but it just seems ALOX is simpler. Throw a hundred boolits in a bag, squirt in a certain amount of warm alox, massage, drop out on paper overnight (or days) Any opinions on PC vs ALOX for this?

-If powder coating: need a better process for even coating, and preventing defects from boolits touching each other or the baking tray. I do not want to lay 1000 boolits on end for baking.

-LEE load master...need I say more? I think I can roll with the punches with my LEE at this point. I'll have an air-duster on standby and make sure if ANYTHING jams up I am ready to quickly disassemble, blow out, clean out any improper goo/junk, and relube without missing a beat.

-Dies: I am expecting the dies might get a bit overwhelmed with particles. especially the boolit seating die. I'm going to have a quick method to brush it out and clean it every 50 rounds or so. I'm not sure how the sizing and powder through dies will fare. But I will expect some sort of repeated cleaning during 1000 rounds.

-Actual reloading consistency. I'm going to have to come up with a plan for QC to make sure the cartridges that come out all plunk. This is not trivial. I'm not sure how to accomplish this. Out of 50 rounds, I had about 6 that for some reason would not plunk, and repeated runs through the bullet sizer (rotating each time) did not seem to fix it. The seem to have good COAL and so forth. A 12% failure rate is not acceptable for 1000 rounds. So I got to get this down.

Good news:

I have all the components I need! Including 30 lbs of lead for 1000 200gn boolits....

I should be able to convert my PID toaster oven to a mold-preheating oven and/or get a hot plate. Any recommendations?

[Stephen Cohen]

For those spits of lead stuck to mould face I use a small gas torch to heat them and wipe off with a charred piece of wood like a pop stick. I don't dip mould's into lead pot to heat as it is a certain way to screw up a mould. I keep a bottle of water close at hand for thirst and any burn and also a damp towel to wipe the brow every now and then. I love casting and a 1,000 is a slow day for me. just work out a system that works for you and time will fly. Regards Stephen

[Flailguy]

Definitely get a hot plate.
PC'ing will keep dies much cleaner.
As far as rounds not plunking, you need to find the cause before you start this mass loading. Cover entire case and boolit with a sharpie insert into chamber then remove to where the interference is.

One you get the issue resolved loading 1k rounds shouldn't be too difficult.

[guy_with_boolits]

For those spits of lead stuck to mould face I use a small gas torch to heat them and wipe off with a charred piece of wood like a pop stick. I don't dip mould's into lead pot to heat as it is a certain way to screw up a mould. I keep a bottle of water close at hand for thirst and any burn and also a damp towel to wipe the brow every now and then. I love casting and a 1,000 is a slow day for me. just work out a system that works for you and time will fly. Regards Stephen

Thanks this is very helpful. I'm going to take my time with cleaning the mold up before even starting this batch using this method of yours, and never dip it in lead again.

[guy_with_boolits]

Definitely get a hot plate.
PC'ing will keep dies much cleaner.
As far as rounds not plunking, you need to find the cause before you start this mass loading. Cover entire case and boolit with a sharpie insert into chamber then remove to where the interference is.

One you get the issue resolved loading 1k rounds shouldn't be too difficult.

Yes I'm going to have to post-mortem those that didnt make it.

As far as PCing keeping the dies cleaner..it would be just the bullet seating die right? (45 ACP). If I come up with a way to clean the bullet seating die every 50 or 100 rounds (perhaps blast it with brake cleaner from underneath followed by mop up with a paper towel and a stick, with metal cup underneath it so the cleaner doesnt drip into the press?), would that make it about even you think as far as using ALOX?

[guy_with_boolits]

Any hot plate recommendations for the mold? What temperature do you actually want to keep the mold at?

[dverna]

Ditch the penta pins for now until you can cast good bullets. You should be getting about 400 bullets an hour with a four cavity mold. Do not admire your work. Once you are getting good bullets, cast at a consistent cadence. Develop a routine. Keep your pot fluxed.

What are you using for alloy?

You have serious problems if you need to clean your seating die every 50 rounds. Not to be condescending...but have you been able to load jacketed or commercial cast bullets?

[guy_with_boolits]

Ditch the penta pins for now until you can cast good bullets. You should be getting about 400 bullets an hour with a four cavity mold. Do not admire your work. Once you are getting good bullets, cast at a consistent cadence. Develop a routine. Keep your pot fluxed.

What are you using for alloy?

You have serious problems if you need to clean your seating die every 50 rounds. Not to be condescending...but have you been able to load jacketed or commercial cast bullets?

I've already cast and loaded about 100 rounds of this boolit and maybe a couple hundred of others in 45, plated RN, and cast SWC boolits and it went fine (except for typical SWC issues not related to casting method) I'm trying to anticipate anything that might be cumulative during a long casting session. I would imagine the dies may get stuff in them. Maybe not. Just trying to anticipate anything that might contribute to cartridges getting out of spec, since I wont be able to inspect each one.

The alloy is the range scrap in the pics.

[guy_with_boolits]

I'm torn between getting this $17 hot plate with unknown max temperature, or just using my PID toaster oven set to 500F to preheat the mold (I guess I'll need to make a foil/kaowool blanket to keep the handles out but the mold inside the oven). https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisine...64&sr=8-2&th=1

Seems like a hot plate would be best, if you can really just set the mold on it and have the hot plate maintain a temperature, and heat the mold through conduction instead of convective/radiant

[FLINTNFIRE]

If you heat the mold up to temp you will have no troubles with your pins , I cast that same mold and will make a coffee can full at a session , first cast is good when mold is hot , I keep tossing sprues back in every few casts and keeping ingots on top of pot to warm so I can slide one in as needed , use the hot plate , nice thing with a MP mold is it sits flat and pins are absorbing heat from the get go .

I do not worry about fluxing my pot while casting , lead should have been clean and fluxed when made into ingots , I use a bottom pour pot with a layer of cat litter covering surface , holds heat and covers melt and cuts back on splashing metal , may not be needed but its what I do .

Yes your mold will conduct the heat from sitting on , my hot plate was a white one from walmart or bimart , I am using it turned to the u in medium and that gets mold to the temp. that works for me , I leave hot plate on low or warm while casting so I can sit mold on it if I take a break for any reason , turn up heat and come back it is right where it should be .

I cast and coat and use bullets that have already sit for anywhere from 2 weeks to months or more , I find a solid cavity mold may be a little easier to drop bullets out of , but a hollow point mold should drop them almost as easy and I use no lube or anything else in cavities , have not found a need for it with molds at temp.

How heavy are your ingots ? as the bigger they are the more it is going to try and freeze up your spout and in making a 1000 bullets you will be refilling your pot during session , if I want to take an extended break from casting I run level in pot down and then fill it with a full load of ingots and go do what I need to with mold on hotplate at low temp. I then come back and when pot is about melted I turn hotplate back up . Hotplate in your amazon link is same as mine except for color .

As to coating that many , you need several trays if you are standing up , hardware cloth if you are dumping on screen and if you do dump on screen its best to take out while still hot and shake them apart , standing them up they can cool off on counter while next pans are cooking .

If using alox a little goes a long way and when loading pay attention to seating depths changing if you are getting build up of lube in your seating die , I went to coating and prefer it for less smoke , slick not sticky , but thats something every one has their own opinion on .

[44Blam]

I normally cast in the 500-1000 boolt range. I tend to fill/melt a 20lb pot and cast until the pot is about 1/4 full and then I top it up and cast again until it is about 0.5-1.5" in the pot.

Depending on the mold this takes 3-6 hours total time. But, I am slow and I throw back anything that isn't perfect -- any wrinkles, etc go back in the pot. I also throw my sprues in the pot as I cast.

My cadence is typically:
Fill Cavities
Wait until frost
Throw old sprues / bad boolts in the pot
Break sprue
Drop/inspect boolits
[repeat]

[toallmy]

You can set a metal plate on a burner even the kitchen stove to preheat the mold before starting to cast .
Have the mold clean and keep it clean and lubed while casting makes everything go smoothly. There are many ways to do both but a q-tip with 2/cycle oil +a #2 pencil works wonders on keeping the mold clean & well lubed for me .
Next is keeping your casting pot full and at a good casting temperature - preheated ingots of clean alloy and not letting the pot get to low before aiding more can help but any time you stop casting to let the pot heat back up your mold is cooling . I add the cut spruce back to the pot before I dump the boolits out of the mold while it’s still hot .
Your going to need to do your project one step at a time so don’t beat yourself up if it takes a couple days to get your casting finished . At times casting goes wonderfully smooth & sometimes it just don’t work out so well .
So if you only get half of your casting finished you can start coating the ones you have ready , but if you had a productive afternoon and finished casting you can take a few days coating your boolits .
While you’re waiting for your boolits to harden do your brass prep getting prepared to load - resize , deprine sort , tumble whatever else you need to do .
Loading well that’s on you - I don’t know the issues you’re having with your loadmaster , but I’d try to get them worked out before attempting to load a bunch .
The worst part of reloading ammunition I’d think would be pulling down a bunch of reject or unsafe ammunition .

[44Blam]

You can set a metal plate on a burner even the kitchen stove to preheat the mold before starting to cast .
Have the mold clean and keep it clean and lubed while casting makes everything go smoothly. There are many ways to do both but a q-tip with 2/cycle oil +a #2 pencil works wonders on keeping the mold clean & well lubed for me .
Next is keeping your casting pot full and at a good casting temperature - preheated ingots of clean alloy and not letting the pot get to low before aiding more can help but any time you stop casting to let the pot heat back up your mold is cooling . I add the cut spruce back to the pot before I dump the boolits out of the mold while it’s still hot .
Your going to need to do your project one step at a time so don’t beat yourself up if it takes a couple days to get your casting finished . At times casting goes wonderfully smooth & sometimes it just don’t work out so well .
So if you only get half of your casting finished you can start coating the ones you have ready , but if you had a productive afternoon and finished casting you can take a few days coating your boolits .
While you’re waiting for your boolits to harden do your brass prep getting prepared to load - resize , deprine sort , tumble whatever else you need to do .
Loading well that’s on you - I don’t know the issues you’re having with your loadmaster , but I’d try to get them worked out before attempting to load a bunch .
The worst part of reloading ammunition I’d think would be pulling down a bunch of reject or unsafe ammunition .

The absolute worst part of reloading is pulling down ammunition. I did find a "little" hack. Get a kenetic puller and a screen. Pull the boolits against a 2x4 and drop the bullet/powder through the screen on to a holder for your powder...

[kevin c]

A hot plate for preheating is a big plus, for both the mold (~400°F is what I've been told to shoot for) and ingots (dropping the temp of the melt with cold ingots and waiting for it to recover to casting range can really slow you down; it's also safer to preheat the ingots to drive off any trapped moisture and prevent a steam explosion). Take some care not to put the mold directly on the coils; while it hasn't happened to me I've been told it can warp the blocks. Another precaution is to use something that can contain the lead just in case the ingot gets too hot and melts.

A thousand good casts in a session is very achievable. Using an 8 cavity mold, I can produce close to 3000 keepers in a three hour session. What makes it possible is an efficient equipment set up, efficient technique, and a good way to keep the pot fed. You'll eventually be able to cast where all your movements in each casting cycle are the same, are automatic, and happen without fumbling or wasted effort because all your tools are ready to hand exactly where your hand falls. The same will be true in all stages of the process of producing a loaded round.

You're on your way! Good luck, and happy casting, loading and shooting!

[Evoken]

I'm torn between getting this $17 hot plate with unknown max temperature, or just using my PID toaster oven set to 500F to preheat the mold (I guess I'll need to make a foil/kaowool blanket to keep the handles out but the mold inside the oven). https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisine...64&sr=8-2&th=1

Seems like a hot plate would be best, if you can really just set the mold on it and have the hot plate maintain a temperature, and heat the mold through conduction instead of convective/radiant

I recently just bought this hot plate. It works well. With the cast iron top you do not need to place a used saw blade or other metal plate on it like most guys do.

With my coffee can hood the plate keeps temp around 450-500 on 3 1/2 setting, according to my infrared thermometer. This little plate has totally changed my casting for the better! I have one mold that casts ok, until you get it smokin hot and all the boolits are frosted then it rains em. The hot plate helps keep it that hot, I have to crank it up to about 4 for this mold.

In short, but the hotplate, you will like it.
Ken

[AlHunt]

You're over thinking it. Separate casting from PC from loading. With a 6 cavity I can dial in around 500 bullets per hour but that's not an HP. My one 2 cavity HP gets me about 200, maybe, per hour. It just requires extra motions that slow me down plus it heavy.

The only real thing I can offer is that my recent change from pressure casting with the mold against the spout to using the mold guide and letting the mold float a quarter inch under the spout increased my speed a LOT.

[remy3424]

What Al says. None of the processes will be a big deal for 1000. The casting is where I would spend too much time. When using the brass MP mlds with the hp pins, my casting/hr goes way down. I just go like heck to get things hot (using a hot plate also), try to keep the lead hot, the mold hot and I don't sort/cull bullets at this point. Once things start going well, I don't want to stop/slow down. PC will should be easy since you have done this before. Just use 3 trays, guessing around 150 will fit on a tray (standing them up) at a time, one tray is cooling, one is baking and you are loading one, a few cycles and that is done. If you bothered to PID your toaster over, I am assuming you have that on your casting pot also.

On the rounds that failed to chamber from your past loadings, are you using matching brass or just misc range pick-ups? If misc brass, are all the loads that won't chamber the same head stamp? If so, purge those from your stash. OR, what most don't like, run everything through a Lee final carbide sizing die/FCD (whatever they call the extra die in their 4 die sets), that is set just to "iron-out" any high spots. Some will not touch, others you can feel and hear it working, it could and likely will, size down the bullet inside slightly...I haven't found this to be an issue. It shouldn't be crimping anything.

[Wayne Smith]

The only thing I noticed you didn't mention is sizing - are you loading these as cast or are you sizing. If loading as cast this accounts for your failures - temperature variation and/or small spots of lead on the face of the mold holding it slightly open creates oversize boolits. Sizing the boolits normalizes this or lets you know that the boolit is too big and needs to be tossed back and re-cast.

[charlie b]

If you go with Alox then you will need to clean the seat die and maybe the crimp die every now and then. Since you are using a Loadmaster, simply remove the whole die assembly and clean the dies away from the load bench. This is especially true if you decide to use something like brake cleaner or acetone. How often you will need to clean will depend on how much lube you put on the bullets. Make up some 45-45-10 and use very thin coats, eg, barely able to see the coating.

But...I would powder coat using a basket. If you have a thermocouple then cast it into a bullet and bury it in the middle of the basket of bullets. As stated above, break apart the bullets when you dump them after baking. The little marks on them make no difference when shooting pistols at reasonable ranges.

Remember, smooth is fast

[Ateam]

I think you are biting off alot for being relatively new to this. My suggestion would be to get good at doing one hundred round batches. After that if you feel the absolute need to do huge batches, go for it. I find when I do huge batches, it is hard to keep quality high throughout.

I use a graphite pencil on the pins if they are giving me sticking problems.