Inline FabricationWidenersRotoMetals2Titan Reloading
Reloading EverythingLoad DataMidSouth Shooters SupplyLee Precision
Repackbox
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 115

Thread: Road to 1000 boolit batch

  1. #61
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    My hat is off to you for even contemplating a run of 1,000 good boolits with a four pound pot. I don't think I would attempt it with a ten pounder.

    As to the lead smears on the sprue plate, I have used both graphite from a pencil and at other times soapstone. Both seem to work equally, so it is whichever comes to hand first for me. I'll even scribble over the top surface of the mold; may not be needed, but it seems to help.

    You need to figure out just how you are getting lead between the faces of the mold, then stop doing it. Dipping the mold to preheat it doesn't cause it.

    I wear leather gloves while casting and the first thing I try to remove smears is to simply give it a quick rub with my thumb. It often works, if not sterner measures are required.

    Robert
    I did 375 boolits today..I timed a cast cycle and it takes me about 15 seconds from dump to dump. So it would only take about an hour to do 1000. But I stopped since I'm not in a hurry. However I'm not including the 10 minute break I take when the pot gets low. Thats when I dump all the sprues in and a couple more pounds of lead. Then I have to wait until the mold and lead all get back up to temp before I can continue. I suppose I could do a continuous sprue-to-pot dump along with preheated ingots but thats okay, not in that much of a rush this time.

    I did check things half way and saw no lead on the mold faces, and the sprue plate looked pretty clean too.

    But then near then end I started getting molten sprues because things were a little hotter than they should be. I think when that happens, little pieces of lead get between the mold faces when I open it, and then they get smashed on the next cycle...so sure enough I checked after 375 and yep there are lead spots on the faces and some smearing on the sprue plate.

    Nowhere near as bad as before but definitely more than I like. So I will clean it again for the final 700

  2. #62
    Boolit Master
    toallmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    easternshore of va.
    Posts
    2,996
    Posted twice
    Last edited by toallmy; 02-07-2021 at 08:47 AM.

  3. #63
    Boolit Master
    toallmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    easternshore of va.
    Posts
    2,996
    Your well on your way to having a excess of cast boolits .
    A shop rag with a touch of sprue plate lube can be used to wipe off the top of the blocks and bottom of the sprue plate while you are casting as well as cleaning specks from the inside of the blocks while it's still up to casting temp .

  4. #64
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by toallmy View Post
    Your well on your way to having a excess of cast boolits .
    A shop rag with a touch of sprue plate lube can be used to wipe off the top of the blocks and bottom of the sprue plate while you are casting as well as cleaning specks from the inside of the blocks while it's still up to casting temp .
    I swear I tried this but it didn't seem to get the lead off. I will try again next session.

    Last night I:

    -Sized 50 to .452 then ALOX'd them (warmed up alox, 35 drops) in a plastic bag, massaged it, then let them air dry on non-stick tin foil. This morning I baked them for 20 mins at 200F

    -PC'd 50 then sized them to .452

    I've already made and shot the PC'd version, so not much to learn there.

    However I have not yet shot an ALOX version of this boolit. So this will be a test. ALOX'ing is significantly easier than PC'ing as far as number of steps. I am not a fan of individually doing anything to boolits more than I have to (picking them apart, standing them up, flipping them over, etc..etc..) so if I can get away with ALOX, I might want to do that to all of them (throw in bag, dribble ALOX, dump out on paper)..maybe I can even get away without baking them.

    Shooting test coming up



  5. #65
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    382
    besides doing a shooting test of ALOX, I'm also doing a post-mortem (as mentioned before) of the 10 rejects I got from a batch of 50 of these loads I did before this 1000 round attempt

    I took pictures and made measurements and blah blah blah...but after some investigation I found my issue.


    Several of my rejects had shaved/pushed lead up above the case mouth, preventing them from plunking even though they had the right COAL and diameter at the case mouth.

    My LEE bullet seating die is shaving lead during the combination seat/crimp(deflare) operation. This is apparently common and suggestions for fixing it range from using harder lead (I notice no issue with my solid copper loads) or splitting the operation up into two..i.e. seat, then crimp. This prevents the crimp from occuring while the bullet is being seated.

    There is also the possibility of pre-chamfering the case mouth but I dont want to add that operation.

    I would imagine with jacketed or even plated bullets I wouldnt have this issue. Its just with the lead cast, PC'd or ALOX'd, that I see it.

    Unfortunately I dont have a lee 45 ACP FCD or two bullet seating/crimping dies, so I will have to run a pass through the loadmaster where everything is finished except crimping, then do it again with crimping. This is okay for this test batch of 50 but I will be getting a FCD or another bullet seating die ASAP so it can take up the 5th position and do all this automatically.

    To test this out I ran an ALOX'd bullet through the seating die, with the die body screwed very far out to prevent any crimping, but with the seating plug screwed in to yield a COAL of about 1.6". Then I reinstalled the die with no seating plug and the die body screwed in to just take out the crimp.

    Sure enough load plunked just as good as my solid copper ones. And also with the case end just below the barrel shroud (where it actually should be if the case is headspacing on my barrel)..not flush.

    So, looks like one major quality issue has been solved here, which was one of my goals of pushing everything to 1000. Now I need to go find those dies...

  6. #66
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    2,602
    Good job casting!

    I try not to time my sessions or count much but my 4 cav brass MP molds tend to get too hot and smear pretty quick, like after ten minutes. From then on I can pour only about twice every minute, maybe even slower.

    The obvious solution is to use two or three molds. Or lower alloy temp but these HP molds like it hot so...


    FWIW I also keep my molds completely clean, wash with brakelkeen and dishwash. Oil the pins.

    FWIW2 when I got my first mold 25 years ago,a single cavity Lee 458 HB mold, I made 1000+ bullets outside on open fire with a dutch oven and a ladle the same day.

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master
    Mk42gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Butler, MO
    Posts
    9,021
    Okay, sounds like as the pot gets emptier, you get impatient to open the sprue. Good on you for figuring it out.

    The solution is to wait until the sprue hardens. Not hard as nails, but not mush either. I usually watch for it to change state from molten to solid, then give it a second or two (guessing here) to harden enough to cut; but not so hard as to need to beat on the sprue plate.

    I generally add the sprues back in as I go, less heat lost that way. I do it while waiting for the sprue puddle to harden, so no real time is lost.

    Robert

  8. #68
    Boolit Buddy AlHunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by guy_with_boolits View Post
    But then near then end I started getting molten sprues because things were a little hotter than they should be.
    It's all learning curve. When you see the sprue hardening time get longer, slow your pace. Some will keep a damp towel close to hand to help manage mold temps, too.

    Somewhere else I saw you mention shaving lead while loading and it seemed like you weren't belling your case mouths. I don't recall ever finding a cast bullet that didn't require the case mouth belled. Sounds like you're on a progressive so maybe you just need to get an extra die if you want to separate seating and crimping.

  9. #69
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    England,Ar
    Posts
    7,687
    Casting a thousand bullets at a setting can seem hopeless sometimes. Especially if you are a new caster. But it will get easier after you gain experience.

    A cheap hot plate will get your mold up to casting temperature while you are waiting on the lead to melt. It will also pre-heat the ingots that you will be adding to the pot. Experience will tell you what settings to use. When the mold gets hot you need to lube it. There is a sticky about mold lube. I flux my pot after everything gets melted and again when its about half empty. You need a comfortable place to work and you need to arrange your tools and equipment in a comfortable arrangement and one that minimizes your movements. When you start getting good bullets and everything is going smoothly, try to remember the pot setting. You'll learn to watch the sprue change colors and when to cut it.

    I suggest starting with a basic bullet. The pins that make hollow points or hollow bases add another degree of challenge that can even frustrate veteran casters!

    And some days things just won't come together for you. It happens to all of us.

  10. #70
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    382
    Quote Originally Posted by AlHunt View Post
    It's all learning curve. When you see the sprue hardening time get longer, slow your pace. Some will keep a damp towel close to hand to help manage mold temps, too.

    Somewhere else I saw you mention shaving lead while loading and it seemed like you weren't belling your case mouths. I don't recall ever finding a cast bullet that didn't require the case mouth belled. Sounds like you're on a progressive so maybe you just need to get an extra die if you want to separate seating and crimping.
    I spent time today looking very closely at the belling/expanding/flaring and the seating/deflaring/crimping situation and I think I got it figured out. I need to do seating and deflaring in two separate steps.

    Now though I'm having trouble keeping the set bullet depth/COAL maintained when actually using the progressive. I've seen people say .010" tolerance is typical for a progressive. I'd like to hit 1.165 +.005/.000 but that could be truly a challenge. The boolits are very soft and the HP is definitely being deformed slightly by the bullet plug, making measuring COAL and setting depth complicated

  11. #71
    Boolit Master

    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    525
    100% get a hot plate, the cheapest you can find is hot enough to preheat molds.
    90% professional 10% mature

  12. #72
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado
    Posts
    2,085
    Quote Originally Posted by sutherpride59 View Post
    100% get a hot plate, the cheapest you can find is hot enough to preheat molds.
    I never used a hotplate that was store bought. I cast from a Lee 10 pound pot, I took a tin can lid and cut a spot for the operating rod. Pot heats up faster, molds heat up sitting on the tin lid, while casting I place an ingot on the rim to preheat and add to the pot as needed. When casting larger boolits I place 2 on the rim, one on top of the other. As needed, the bottom ingot goes in, the top one get another placed on it.

    When I take a break I put the tin lid back on top, and the mold(s) back to keep warm. No need for a hotplate when you already have a heat source, but it works well for those who use hotplates.
    Common sense Gun Safety . . .

    Is taught at the Range!

  13. #73
    Boolit Master


    Burnt Fingers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    1,938
    Quote Originally Posted by guy_with_boolits View Post
    I swear I tried this but it didn't seem to get the lead off. I will try again next session.

    Last night I:

    -Sized 50 to .452 then ALOX'd them (warmed up alox, 35 drops) in a plastic bag, massaged it, then let them air dry on non-stick tin foil. This morning I baked them for 20 mins at 200F

    -PC'd 50 then sized them to .452

    I've already made and shot the PC'd version, so not much to learn there.

    However I have not yet shot an ALOX version of this boolit. So this will be a test. ALOX'ing is significantly easier than PC'ing as far as number of steps. I am not a fan of individually doing anything to boolits more than I have to (picking them apart, standing them up, flipping them over, etc..etc..) so if I can get away with ALOX, I might want to do that to all of them (throw in bag, dribble ALOX, dump out on paper)..maybe I can even get away without baking them.

    Shooting test coming up


    Try some Hi-Tek.

    It's done in batches. No need to handle each boolit.
    NRA Benefactor.

  14. #74
    Boolit Master
    Petander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    2,602
    I just happened to get my first ever 8 cav mold yesterday, an MP 359-135 rf bb.

    Out of curiosity, I asked my Better Half to notify me after half an hour casting with Pro Melt @ 750 F.

    Casting normally as always,I got 350 bullets in 30 min using that one mold alone. My current soft alloy drops 153 grain,not 135. Diameter is .359".

    Last edited by Petander; 02-09-2021 at 09:23 AM.

  15. #75
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    382
    Today I shot about 50 of the following:

    MP-452-200 hollow points with circular pin
    4.5 gn bullseye
    (these chrono about 840 fps)
    random mixed headstamp range pickup brass
    pretty soft alloy most likely
    ALOX'd
    COAL 1.16 to 1.17"

    I am a new shooter and the pictured targets are from 13yd and 27yd. Pistol supported on a sand bag on a table. Both appear to be about 33 MOA, each with 1 flier.

    There is leading. Its not as bad as I've seen before but...I guess its bad? I dont know. This is starting from a clean barrel, after 50 rounds. Strangely I seem to notice leading is the most intense by far in one particular groove/land at the top of the barrel, after all my shooting (not just today)..any reason that would be?

    Where do I go from here? If this leading, and this accuracy, is about right, then maybe its good enough.

    But, if I want to try for more accuracy, I would guess:

    -sort brass by headstamp and post-sized length and load one type/length
    -push load up a bit higher (people have mentioned this can help with leading)
    -abandon ALOX and go back to PC (sigh..)
    -change powders? (what would be better in this case?)

    Ideas?



    Last edited by guy_with_boolits; 02-11-2021 at 12:51 AM.

  16. #76
    Boolit Buddy AlHunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    299
    Quote Originally Posted by guy_with_boolits View Post
    Today I shot about 50 of the following:

    MP-452-200 hollow points with circular pin
    4.5 gn bullseye
    (these chrono about 840 fps)
    random mixed headstamp range pickup brass
    pretty soft alloy most likely
    ALOX'd
    COAL 1.16 to 1.17"

    I am a new shooter and the pictured targets are from 13yd and 27yd. Pistol supported on a sand bag on a table. Both appear to be about 33 MOA, each with 1 flier.

    There is leading. Its not as bad as I've seen before but...I guess its bad? I dont know. This is starting from a clean barrel, after 50 rounds. Strangely I seem to notice leading is the most intense by far in one particular groove/land at the top of the barrel, after all my shooting (not just today)..any reason that would be?

    Where do I go from here? If this leading, and this accuracy, is about right, then maybe its good enough.

    But, if I want to try for more accuracy, I would guess:

    -sort brass by headstamp and post-sized length and load one type/length
    -push load up a bit higher (people have mentioned this can help with leading)
    -abandon ALOX and go back to PC (sigh..)
    -change powders? (what would be better in this case?)

    Ideas?



    No, that's not accuracy.

    Get that lead out. A few jacketed rounds might blow some of it out. From there a brush and solvent might do the trick. Failing that a product called Lewis Lead Remover is reported to be good. There are billions of words written all over the internet about lead removal.

    I don't remember what alloy you're using, but it might need some help.

    Try the powder coated version and see how the do.

    Primarily, I'd get someone else to shoot that gun. You're a new shooter and maybe even off the sandbag your technique just isn't good. Breath, trigger control and grip all still matter off the sandbag.

  17. #77
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    382
    Heres my plan for moving forward:

    -Although I did try a PC version of this boolit before, it was before I found the issue with my crimping, so I'm going to do it again , lets say 100 PC
    -I will PC them very carefully this time, (tweezers to place upright, etc.. to try and get them as consistently coated and defect free as possible)
    -I'll still make another ALOX batch of 100
    -I'll sort by headstamp and post-sized case length, and only load cases within a certain tight tolerance (if that turns out to be realistic)
    -I suppose I'll stay with bullseye for the moment
    -I'll load half with a slightly higher load
    -I'll shoot PC first to presumably reduce leading impact on accuracy
    -Same distances (14yd and 27yd)
    -Its a little late for me to improve the alloy as the boolits are all cast. However by shooting PC first maybe I can detect whether the lead is an issue. I see many, many reports of people using extremely soft lead alloys with HP's in 45 ACP with no issue once they get the load right, so I think I should be able to make it work, but who knows. Maybe this alloy is junk for some reason besides its hardness.

    EDIT: Actually this alloy is jacketed range scrap that has been water dropped, and then cooked at 220F for 1 hour for the ALOX. That is probably in the 10 BHN area isnt it? Or would the ALOX cook anneal it?
    Last edited by guy_with_boolits; 02-11-2021 at 11:06 AM.

  18. #78
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    382
    Its looking like my road to 1000 is turning into a stop and go every 100 as I find problems with my loading processes and try to improve them before the next batch. This is actually exactly what I wanted. Hopefully by the time I make #1000 I will have an accurate load that I would want to make another 1000 of.

    If I was happy with what I've been loading, I no longer see any problem with making 1000. The casting is actually pretty fast and smooth, and I've even got the load-master pumping out loads with a consistent COAL (as long as you keep the shell plate full). The problems I seem to be having are related to:

    -cases with varying length (measured and proven, although unclear what impact it has on the load accuracy)
    -alloy (its very soft I think, I cant tell if it is having a problem or not,but I thought super soft was fine if the load was right at 1911 speeds?)
    -leading (unclear whats causing this, I suppose it could just be the alloy, but maybe the ALOX isn't being applied right, or I need to up the load)

  19. #79
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    382
    PC batch, my most carefully made yet. All stood up with dusted gloves, on non stick foil with fda silicone sprayed on the foil


  20. #80
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    10,572
    using the #2 pencil as lube for pins and sprue plate!
    4 cavity pistol bullet mould - are you planning commercial? I can cast 3-400 (4x mould) and stop to dump sprue and refill pot. Usually shoulder is tired anyway. What you want is really no big deal - they are PISTOL bullets. You will have rejects, I just cull them waiting for the pot to melt more alloy. I PC 200 batches on my hot plate.
    You worry too much. This is 40sw 165gr (testing some diff. alloy) off hand shooting. Just culled out bad bases.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SCN_0161.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	61.0 KB 
ID:	277394
    Whatever!

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check