Well the old war horse is about to be finally retired. With replacement parts difficult to obtain and rifle replacements not at hand the Canadian Rangers will now soon be getting a new bolt action rifle. I may have to pick up the civilian version.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...nfield-rifles/
Local Ranger outfit is excited about the new rifle which should start appearing around here on our range late 2016.
Take Care
Bob
Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!
"If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"
Here is the article in the Ottawa Citizen describing the Rifle Replacement Program:
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/nation...nadian-rangers
The Canadian Rangers require a hunting rifle for survival and self defence against large North American carnivores at ranges of 0 metres to 300 metres. Currently, the Rangers use the Lee Enfield No. 4 to meet these requirements but the age and the scarcity of parts for this weapon will soon make it very difficult if not impossible to maintain, according to the Department of National Defence and Colt Canada.
Because of that the New Canadian Ranger Rifle (NCRR) system is being purchased to replace the Lee Enfields.
Here are the details provided in an information sheet supplied to Defence Watch by Colt Canada:
The NCRR will be used by CRs while patrolling some of the most remote regions of coastal, central and northern areas of Canada. The temperatures will reach as high as +39C with moderate to high humidity along coastal and forested regions and as low as -51C in arctic regions. For those CRs located in coastal areas, it is likely that the NCRR will be exposed to long term salt laden air and water. The NCRR will be transported by the CR on foot, wheeled commercial vehicles, skidoos, sleds, small boats and all-terrain vehicles. It must remain operable during and following exposure to these environments.
Program Overview
The Government of Canada and the Department of National Defence with Colt Canada, under the Munitions Supply Program (MSP) will replace the original Lee Enfield rifle fleet with a commercially available hunting rifle. The replacement will be a bolt action, calibre .308 Winchester, magazine fed rifle. Ancillary items, such as a hard transport case, soft transport case, sling, cleaning kit and trigger lock for each rifle will be procured at this time.
Prototype rifles have been delivered to the Rangers and will undergo user trial evaluations from now till the end of 2015. Production of 6500 or more rifles is expected to commence in mid-2016 with a completion mid to end 2018.
Equipment Suppliers
Rifle: 1. The replacement rifle is based on the SAKO T3 CTR (Compact Tactical Rifle).
- SAKO Ltd is based in Riihimaki, Finland.
- The Canadian supplier is Stoeger Canada from Whitby, Ontario.
- The first 125 prototypes have been delivered to Canada and they will undergo User Trials by the Rangers. Feedback from the Rangers will be incorporated into production rifles.
- Colt Canada will produce the barrel, bolt and receiver under licence from Sako. Production is scheduled to begin mid to end 2016.
- The Ranger Rifle has several Canadian modifications.
- a) Larger bolt handle and enlarged trigger guard to accommodate gloved hands.
- b) Protected front and rear iron sights.
- c) Laminated stock in unique orange or red colour with Ranger Crest.
- d) Two stage trigger with three position safety.
Ancillaries: 1. Pelican hard transport case with Ranger Crest and custom moulded
internal foam supplied by Pelican Products ULC, from Edmonton, Alberta.
- Cleaning kit, sling and soft transport case supplied by Rampart International, from Ottawa, Ontario.
- Trigger lock supplied by The Old Co-Op, from North Gower, Ontario.
Colt Canada is the officially appointed Strategic Source and Centre of Excellence for Small Arms to the Government of Canada. Registered in the province of Nova Scotia, and with its manufacturing facility located in Kitchener, Ontario, Colt Canada provides full support to all small arms -ranging from 9mm pistols to .50 calibre heavy machine guns- in the Canadian Armed Forces inventory.
Attachment 149782Attachment 149783
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
It is about time, lots of goverment who ha here.
Bull to getting no 4 parts, they can still be made, no excuse their.
good to see the Rangers get a new rifle just the same.
Be safe
When you read the fine print you get an education
when you ignore the fine print you get experience
Lots of parts is nonsense and to expect somebody to tool up to make a limited supply of parts for 70+ old worn out rifles would be foolish bordering on dumb. That would be a move the Liberals or NDP would gleefully support on the premise Union workers would be subsidized. Bad enough Colt Industries gets a juicy contract for rifles that could have been supplied directly from SAKO at less cost to the taxpayer.Originally Posted by leebuilder
Take Care
Bob
Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!
"If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"
I wonder if any of those ol' war clubs will find their way to the States?
Political correctness is a national suicide pact.
I am a sovereign individual, accountable
only to God and my own conscience.
Possible, I think we still have good relations with Canada. Better than China or Russia anyway where we still get arms.
Perhaps I missed something, but how many Canadian Rangers are on establishment? Who deemed a .308 Winchester Bolt Rifle is a good replacement? The Canadians should ask Uncle Sam for some M14 Rifles and have a better arm than any .308 bolt rifle, in my humble opinion. I had an M14 for three years and it was all the rifle I could ask for. Bolt guns went out with WWI! This is the 21st Century, after all.
Adam
That looks like a fine choice. It has the high capacity magazine and can shoot 180gr bullets or even heavier just fine. And it's stainless - that's a big plus. It will hurt their ears more though with that short barrel and high pressure cartridge.
Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)
''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''
Hi Bob, not that dumb, after all, "they" considered the AIA no4mk4 as a replacment. We could of built and designed our own too. After all i am sure there a enough C1 and C3 skulling about to replace the no4s, if it does not effect ITAR we could sell new parts to the public, imagine new milspec no4 barrels made and sold here. To bad they will all be destroyed.
be well and safe
Last edited by leebuilder; 09-26-2015 at 09:10 PM.
When you read the fine print you get an education
when you ignore the fine print you get experience
When the Cdn. Forces replaced their FALs with the C7 AR variant, there would have been plenty of 7.62mm semi-auto rifles available, but if I understand correctly they did not wish to equip the Rangers with a semi-automatic rifle, but a 7.62mm boltgun with detachable magazine and accessory rail is a vast improvement over their former No.4s. The Sako T3 is a great rifle and they have made an excellent choice. I hope that once the contract requirements are filled, that a civilian version may become available and a few drift down here.
I would much prefer the Sako to the Ruger Gunsite Scout, but for now my M1 Garand and Winchester 54 boltgun will have to do. I'm not going to run out of .30 caliber ammunition anytime soon. I have always prefered walnut and blued steel and don't own any EBRs. Attachment 149832
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
Adam the M14 was tested in the High Arctic back in the 1950's and was found to be not suitable as a front line Infantry weapon. The design would not have met the needs of the Cdn Rangers. Here is the Gov't initial announcement to replace the LE.:
" The Role of the Canadian Rangers
The Canadian Rangers are a sub-component of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) Reserve. They are effectively the military’s eyes and ears in the sparsely settled northern, coastal and isolated areas of Canada that can not conveniently or economically be covered by other parts of the CAF, providing patrols and detachments for national-security and public-safety missions in these locations.
Today there are approximately 5000 Canadian Rangers living in over 200 communities. Given the critical role the Canadian Rangers play in the safety and security of our Northern communities, and the sovereignty of our North, they require well-functioning reliable supplies and equipment. Rifles are critical tools for the rangers’ work. The model currently used is the Lee Enfield. While the stock of rifles now in use are excellent tools for an Arctic environment, their replacement parts are becoming less available and may be completely unavailable after 2017. The Government of Canada is therefore replacing the Lee Enfields with modern rifles to meet the Canadian Rangers’ needs into the future.
The Government of Canada issued a Request for Proposals (RFP) in 2014 for a new Ranger Rifle design, and the contract was awarded in early 2015. Following testing, and any necessary design amendments, Colt Canada will produce more than 6500 rifles, which will be phased into use by the Canadian Rangers between mid-2016 and late-2019.
A Call for a Rifle Design Suitable for Canada’s North
The Government of Canada will turn to a long-established Canadian expert in the weapons industry, Colt Canada, which holds a solid track record in supplying and maintaining small arms, including rifles. Colt Canada assisted the government to competitively select a rifle design and then will manufacture them. The company, previously called Diemaco, has been Canada's Small Arms Strategic Source and Centre of Excellence since it was competitively selected in 1976, under the federal Munitions Supply Program (MSP). As such, Colt Canada is an experienced and efficient manufacturer and supporter of small arms for Canada, including the men and women of the CAF. This stable Canadian small arms manufacturing and maintenance capacity is considered key for the constant readiness of the CAF for domestic and international operations. The Government of Canada remains committed to the MSP.
The government will in fact issue two contracts to Colt Canada. The first contract, valued at approximately $1.5 million, is for Colt Canada to manage the design competition, as well as the delivery of up to 125 test and evaluation rifles. Colt Canada itself will not be a contender for the rifle design. The Department of National Defence (DND) and Public Works and Government Services Canada will fully participate in evaluating the design bids, along with Colt Canada as the competitively selected manufacturer.
The second follow-on contract will enable Colt Canada to buy the technical data package and a manufacturing license agreement for the design which will be manufactured at Colt Canada. This contract also includes quality control, the production of spare parts, and accessories such as cases and trigger safety locks. Canada will contract General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems, also an identified partner through the strategic source agreement with the MSP, to supply the ammunitions. The production contract is expected to be awarded in early 2016.
What Kind of Rifle is Required?
The Canadian Rangers require a specialized, robust rifle that can perform reliably in temperatures well below freezing. There will also be unique cosmetic elements to help CAF and Royal Canadian Mounted Police personnel identify an official Ranger Rifle from a distance, leading to a specific design for these rifles as opposed to purchasing off-the-shelf stock.
The ownership of the intellectual property of the design will remain with the selected design firm, and Colt Canada will acquire a manufacturing license for the design on behalf of Canada. As the rifle manufacturer, Colt Canada will be required to change or update the technical data package periodically, for example in the event a particular part becomes obsolete. Updates are required as, historically, DND’s small arms have a service life of between 30 to 70 years. The Canadian-manufactured Lee Enfield went into service during WWII and has been used by the Canadian Rangers since 1947. (Add the Longbranch rifles are the majority but other #4's have been purchased over the years as the "supply" of NIB Longbranch rifles ended years ago. )
These two contracts will support the continued employment of 95 jobs and contribute to the creation of up to approximately 30 jobs in the Kitchener, Ontario region."
The procurement and political nonsense that seems to be required to get anything done in a democracy these days is at times astonishing isn't it.
The SAKO aka Tiki rifle should be perfect for the intended use. The design and rifle chosen would have made Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper proud as it would seem to fit his description of his beloved Scout Rifle. I know our local Company of Rangers are excited about the prospect of getting the new rifle. The kit that comes with the rifles is also first class.
Take Care
Bob
Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!
"If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"
Does the Tika have a spring loaded ejector in the bolt face, ala the Rem. 700? This will give problems for sure, with some Rangers . They wanted to go with a Ruger Scout rifle,which is mechanically a much more reliable design. Ruger would not agree to the licensing requirements.
I don't know about the bolt you would have to check with someone who owns either a Tika or Sako. Rugers are great kit guns but I doubt they are made to the same level of quality that the Tika/Sako guns are. I have looked at then locally and was not impressed with fit or finish. Great design just average finish. The licensing agreement is key to the Cdn Military contracts unless offsets are available which certainly would have been the case with an American supplier.
My days and desire of tramping around in -50C weather is long since gone, did that done that in around Pine Point and Ft. Simpson, NWT. I may pick up a civilian T3 with the composite stock. Here on the Left Coast we do get copious amounts of rain and wet weather. The civilian model comes with a threaded barrel and could be convinced to put a muzzle brake on the gun. I have a couple of scopes looking for rifles.
Take Care
Bob
Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!
"If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"
Looks like a damn good solution to me. Excellent NATO issued cartridge that is readily available and well proven. A simple and reliable bolt action that can be counted on in very remote locations under harsh conditions. Stainless barrel and laminated stock should hold up well. Basic iron sights but a rail for optics as well. They clearly took some input and added features like a larger trigger guard for use with gloves. Overall I think they got an excellent rifle.
T3's do have spring loaded ejector pins and of course a Saeco extractor claw. Pretty much like an AR-15. Since they've been around for many years and come from Finland I believe cold weather testing is extensive. I'm pretty sure most Canadian Rangers will know better than to muck up there rifle with oil that will gel hard in cold temps.
“AMERICA WILL NEVER BE DESTROYED FROM THE OUTSIDE. IF WE FALTER AND LOSE OUR FREEDOMS, IT WILL BE BECAUSE WE DESTROYED OURSELVES.” President Abraham Lincoln
Early complaints about the Lee Enfield rifle, not SMLE or No.4, when issued to Canadian troops or militia or RCMP not sure which, in the arctic were the firing pin freezing up tight in the bolthead in sub zero weather and in forests resin from the evergreen trees drifted down into the open topped action body and gummed up the bolts.
Apparently those problems were only due to much closer tolerances of the pre SMLE rifles. The Australian Lithgow rifles manufactured before 1916 were also prone to jamming up in dusty conditions, the fit between bolt body and action body being way too tight. Arctic explorers learned to use their rifles completely free of any sort of lubrication.
The Standard SMLE and No.4 rifles don't seem to have had any such issues.
The No.4 rifle converted to 7.62 NATO was never considered suitable for every day infantry use, though the L42 rifles had no problems with the cartridge if properly maintained.
No.4 rifles converted to 7.62/.308 are limited to a certain pressure level if used in competition.
If only ammunition meeting the original M80 Ball specifications were used the converted No.4 rifles might be suited for ranger use, but the 144-150 gr bullets are really not suitable for self defense against large bodied animals, especially brown bear and polar bear.
The Prototype FN FAL rifles failed arctic testing, though I'm sure the improved models would be up to the task.
Regardless manually operated rifles are better suited to arctic climes.
from what I understand the individual Rangers are getting to keep their issued No. 4's as personal property. I can not believe any Government would make such a good decision.
I hope they get to keep them. I mean, no one can say they haven't earned them. But I'm kind of prejudiced and think that all armed services personell who are honorably discharged from any country, should be given their service weapon upon discharge to maintain as their private property. What better way to make sure all countries have their own "minute men" at all times? And I believe this should be the case regardless of current weapons laws, such as the ones saying that no more full auto's are allowed to be registered in the US. Who cares if US troops have an M-16 or M-4 with a 3 round burst after they get discharged? Personally, I'd rather they got to keep them. Like I said though, I'm prejudiced.
Last edited by Lonegun1894; 09-28-2015 at 02:06 PM.
I passed my last psych eval, how bout you?
I reported on this contract a few months ago. There is already a civilian version of this gun as it was what was modified to fill the contract. Tikka T3 CTR is the gun.
http://www.tikka.fi/rifles/tikka-t3/...tical-rifleThe
Changes made were addition of the Iron sights which are bolt on, and the larger bolt knob and trigger guard which came from something else, and the Laminated stock.
Last I heard they hadn't decided between the Orange Laminate and Red/gray laminate. I personally think the Red/gray goes better with their red hoodies and caps.
I was the one who put Ruger onto this contract and the only reason they didn't get it was because of the "Built in Canada" that the politicians put on the final draft of the requirement.
The Ruger Scout Rifle was ready to go out of the box with every other requirement, and bunch cheaper.
Nothing wrong with the Tikka Rifle, and I almost bought one a few months ago. I think they will be well served by this gun.
Boyd's has been getting barraged with people wanting the pretty Laminated Stocks for Tikka T3's.
Randy
Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 09-29-2015 at 05:41 PM.
"It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
The built in Canada was there from the start. If Ruger wanted the contract they would have had to sell a license to Colt Industries to make most of the gun parts and have the rifles assembled in Canada. Their choice. This has been Canadian Government policy for years. The US and Canada have a bilateral agreement on major purchases whereby if Canada spend x amount of funds buying US sourced equipment a certain level of military equipment is bought from Canada - usually aircraft parts from what I can see.
The Tika aka Sako T3 will be a better rifle. The civilian gun had a composite stock as well which would not hold up in the very low temperatures experienced in the Canadian high arctic. I may get the civilian version to play with. It will get a muzzle brake though. The gun is pretty light and I have sensitive shoulders.
Longgun1894 the Canadian Rangers are not in any aspect a fighting military force. They do play a role in maintaining our sovereignty of the high Arctic and are trained to assist civilian authorities in the case of natural disasters. Minute men though, they are not. This is not 1812 and Obama is not Madison.
I can check tonight but I do not believe they are going to be able to keep their issued rifles. Most are worn out anyway besides when they give them up they get a very nice Tika in return, with a hard and soft gun case, cleaning kit and sling.
If the old # 4 tool care of the Polar Bears and Browns so will the Tika.
Take Care
Bob
Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!
"If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"
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