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Thread: Reloading Primers using Prime-All Mixture (Testing Results)

  1. #1
    Boolit Master



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    Reloading Primers using Prime-All Mixture (Testing Results)

    This thread will focus on rebuilding primers using the Prime-All mixture for reloading expended Small Rifle primers. The BOM (Bill of Materials) I use for accomplishing this follows. An Internet Link is provided with each as a potential source/example of each item needed.

    BOM:

    • (1) Prime-All Repriming Compound
    https://sharpshooter-22lr-reloader.m...iming-compound

    • (1) Harbor Freight Plastic Funnel Tray.
    https://www.harborfreight.com/easy-s...ray-37081.html

    • (2) Small Glass Sample Jars with lids. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...pd_gw_unk&th=1

    • Plastic Round Top Swizel Stick. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    • (1) Glass Shot Glass.
    https://www.amazon.com/Thirsty-Rhino...2293745&sr=8-5

    • (1) set Bamboo Chop Sticks, size to fit & pack primers.
    https://www.amazon.com/Set-200-Chops...8-6acff948fa5a


    • (1) set Stainless Steel Dental Pics. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    • Stainless Steel Forceps.
    https://www.amazon.com/Fishing-Strai...2294539&sr=8-3

    • (1) Hand held Hole Punch; 1/8” Hole (for Small Rifle and Small Pistol foil paper disks). https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    • (1) Cast Iron Anvil or Small Section Railroad Rail.
    https://www.harborfreight.com/15-lb-...vil-69425.html

    • (1) 1/8 inch Punch to remove dimple from Primer Cup. https://www.harborfreight.com/8-piec...set-93424.html

    • (1) Hammer (your choice).
    https://www.harborfreight.com/16-oz-...mer-66862.html

    • (1) 4” drill press vice.
    https://www.harborfreight.com/4-inch...ise-30999.html

    • (1) 3” or 4” C-Clamp (My current choice for seating anvils into Primer Cups). https://www.harborfreight.com/3-inch...sugg_q=c+clamp

    • (1) Magnifying Glass, 10X.
    https://www.amazon.com/Magnifying-Ma...roducts&sr=1-4

    • Shellac 0.5 Ounce can.
    https://www.acehardware.com/departme.../lacquer/11307

    • 91% Alcohol.
    https://www.amazon.com/Members-Mark-...s%2C286&sr=8-6


    • Paper for Primer Foil. (My current choice is Cash Register Receipt Paper from ACE Purchase).

    The following Videos provide examples on reloading expended Primers that I used as reference before I began to do experiments myself and develop techniques and data:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InnFDDdtXP4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkHazcrCZl0&t=96s
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master



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    Reloading Primers using Prime-All Mixture - Test #1.

    Reloading Primers using Prime-All Mixture - Test #1.

    Randomly pulled 25 expended Small Rifle Primers from a bottle of saved Small expended Rifle Primers. Disassembled anvils from 15 Primers using a sharp sheet rock nail; and holding the primers cup using a set of straight stainless steel forceps. The remaining 10 could not be removed using this technique; it appears the anvil is more deeply set into the cup than the 15 that were removed.

    Removed the firing pin indentation using 1/8” Harbor Freight Punch and the primer rested on a piece of Train Rail as a shop anvil. Cleaning was limited to scraping obvious reside from the primer cup.

    Mixed one unit of Prime-All primer mixture using their instructions. The package has a tool with a large cup on one end and a small cup on the other end. A unit of mixture consists of: Two Large scoops of Powder Red sticker L2; then One Large scoop of Powder Blue sticker 1; then One Small scoop of Yellow sticker S; then One Small scoop of Green sticker S. Mix well until uniform grey color. This provided enough mixture to fill to the top 15 Small Primer Cups – (with a little bit left over in the plastic mixing cup). For Small Rifle Primers – it will require Seven (7) units of primer mixture to make a hundred primers.

    I packed each primer using the end of a chop stick; then placed a drop of Acetone in each primer. Acetone dried quickly; so I waited until it was dried then used 91% alcohol on each primer. Did NOT use a paper disk on these primers. Seated the anvils into the primer and mixture using a small C clamp. After drying; it became apparent that small amounts of primer mixture was able to fall out of the primers through the gaps between the three anvil legs. Use of a “Paper Foil” over the mixture and below the anvil is apparently mandatory to keep mixture in place.

    Seated primers into .223 cases using a Lee Hand Primer.

    Test results: Did not load powder and ball; but shot in a Savage Axis .223 with 15 seated primers in .223 cases. Shot primers: 5 shots had strong loud report. 10 shots had weak to no report. When cases that had low reports were extracted; they had a reddish smoke rising from the cases, with the inside of the necks having a reddish appearance.

    Lessons learned:

    (1) Need dental picks to extract anvils. Nail is an expedient but not a good solution.
    (2) Probably need to tumble primers in soapy water or Ultra-Sonic Clean in soapy water.
    (3) Need a suitable paper foil over packed primer mixture. Will try onion skin paper.
    (4) Use a Lee Sizer bottom ram, and a Lee Decapper upside down in press to seat anvils?
    (5) The Prime-All mixture is probably highly corrosive. Cleaned rifle with Hoppes #9; see pictures – Primer fouling in the Rifle was pretty significant (probably because of 10 rounds with weak reports.)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by MUSTANG; 02-02-2021 at 05:54 PM. Reason: Add Pic
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master



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    Reloading Primers using Prime-All Mixture - Test #2.

    Reloading Primers using Prime-All Mixture - Test #2.

    Used same 15 expended Small Rifle Primers from previous Test #1. Disassembled anvils from 15 Primers using a sharp sheet rock nail; and holding the primers cup using a set of straight stainless steel forceps.

    Removed the firing pin indentation using 1/8” Harbor Freight Punch. This time inverted the punch and hamered out the dimple with the hammer striking the Primer directly (Not the hammer hitting the punch head). Although I saw this on an Internet Video, I did not find this satisfactory as the Punch was unstable. Primer cleaning was accomplished in a Harbor Freight ultrasound cleaner with only Dawn Dish soap.

    Mixed one unit of Prime-All primer mixture using their instructions. The package has a tool with a large cup on one end and a small cup on the other end. A unit of mixture consists of: Two Large scoops of Powder Red sticker L2; then One Large scoop of Powder Blue sticker 1; then One Small scoop of Yellow sticker S; then One Small scoop of Green sticker S. Mix well until uniform grey color. This provided enough mixture to fill to the top 15 Small Primer Cups – (with a little bit left over in the plastic mixing cup). For Small Rifle Primers – it will require Seven (7) units of primer mixture to make a hundred primers.

    I packed each primer using the end of a chop stick. Then cut out a disk of 9 pound Onion Skin Paper using a 1/8” hand hole punch. Placed the disk over the Prime-All previously packed into the Primer Cup. Then placed a drop of 91% alcohol on top of the paper/foil in each primer. Seated the anvils into the primer and mixture using RCBS Press with a base from a Lee .356 bullet sizing die; and the sizing die screwed into the top, used a Large flat thick washer to use as a flat end to keep the primer from going into the die body. Slight pressure on handle set anvil into the Primer Cup. Let dry for 12 hours before seating into .223 cases using Lee Hand Primer Tool and testing.

    Test results: Did not load powder and ball; but shot in a Savage Axis .223 with 15 seated primers in .223 cases. Shot primers: 13 shots had strong loud report, 1 shots had weak report, and 1 had no report but smoked slightly with reddish brown coming out of case. The inside of the necks for most cases have a reddish appearance.

    Lessons learned:

    (1) Need dental picks to extract anvils. Nail is an expedient but not a good solution.
    (2) Probably need to tumble primers in soapy water or Ultra-Sonic Clean in soapy water.
    (3) Need a suitable paper foil over packed primer mixture. Will try thicker paper next as the 9lb onion paper did not punch out good circles as over primer mixture foil.
    (4) Will allow 24 hours to dry next Test.
    (5) The Prime-All mixture is probably highly corrosive. Cleaned rifle with Hoppes #9; see pictures – Primer fouling in the Rifle was pretty significant (probably because of 2 rounds with weak reports.)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    (6) If can achieve 100% strong report in testing; will move to “Live Fire” testing with 60 grain .223 Jacketed bullets; hope to also do velocity testing then or subsequent Tests.
    Last edited by MUSTANG; 02-02-2021 at 06:21 PM.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master



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    Reloading Primers using Prime-All Mixture - Test #3.

    Reloading Primers using Prime-All Mixture - Test #3.

    Used same 15 expended Small Rifle Primers from previous Test #1. Disassembled anvils from 15 Primers using a sharp sheet rock nail; and holding the primers cup using a set of straight stainless steel forceps.

    Removed the firing pin indentation using 1/8” Harbor Freight Punch. This time returned to using the RailiRoad Rail with the cup on the Rail; then the punch and hammer used to iron out the dimple. Primer cleaning was accomplished in a Harbor Freight ultrasound cleaner with only Dawn Dish soap.

    Mixed one unit of Prime-All primer mixture using their instructions. The package has a tool with a large cup on one end and a small cup on the other end. A unit of mixture consists of: Two Large scoops of Powder Red sticker L2; then One Large scoop of Powder Blue sticker 1; then One Small scoop of Yellow sticker S; then One Small scoop of Green sticker S. Mix well until uniform grey color. This provided enough mixture to fill to the top 15 Small Primer Cups – (with a little bit left over in the plastic mixing cup). For Small Rifle Primers – it appears it will require Seven (7) units of primer mixture to make a hundred primers.

    I packed each primer using the end of a chop stick. Then cut out a disk of light weight Parchment Paper using a 1/8” hand hole punch. Placed the disk over the Prime-All previously packed into the Primer Cup. Then placed a drop of 91% alcohol on top of the paper/foil in each primer. Seated the anvils into the primer and mixture using RCBS Press with a base from a Lee .356 bullet sizing die; and the sizing die screwed into the top, used a Large flat thick washer to use as a flat end to keep the primer from going into the die body. Slight pressure on handle set anvil into the Primer Cup. Let dry for 12 hours before seating into .223 cases using Lee Hand Primer Tool and testing.

    Test results: Did not load powder and ball; but shot in a Savage Axis .223 with 15 seated primers in .223 cases. Shot primers: 13 shots had strong loud report, 2 shots had weak report. Some of the primers have developed a slight ridge around the primer base, similar to an over pressure condition in High Pressure Loads with stiff powder loads. It appears this condition was caused by using the RCBS press to seat the anvil into the primer cup; causing the base to get slightly squished/expanded. The inside of the necks for most cases have a reddish appearance.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Lessons learned:

    (1) Need dental picks to extract anvils. Nail is an expedient but not a good solution. They are on order.
    (2) Probably need to tumble primers in soapy water or Ultra-Sonic Clean in soapy water. Probably clean – then remove the anvils – then clean cups and anvils again to get rid of the crusty primer residue still in some cups.
    (3) Need a suitable paper foil over packed primer mixture. Used thin parchment paper this time; but found several partially burned paper disks when the Anvils were removed from the cups. See Picture.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    (4) Will allow 24 hours to dry next Test.
    (5) The Prime-All mixture is probably highly corrosive. Cleaned rifle with Hoppes #9; see pictures – Primer fouling in the Rifle for Test #3 was as great as it was for Test #2.
    (6) Next test will try a lighter paper such as cash register receipt paper for the Paper Disk (paper foils).
    (7) Not planning on using powder until I can get a better consistency of ignition. A 10-15% failure to fire ratio for primers is disappointing. More thought and alternative testing required.
    Last edited by MUSTANG; 02-02-2021 at 10:32 PM.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  5. #5
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    Very interesting. Thanks for posting your results and looking forward to your continued testing.
    Ron

  6. #6
    Boolit Master



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    Working with the primer cups, loading Prime-All into the cup; and placing the paper (foil) disk on top of the mixture is more easily accomplished if one makes a tool. Borrowed this technique from one of the videos. All you need is a CCI small Rifle/Pistol plastic primer tray. Drill two or three holes depending on your technique in the "Corner" of a quadrant on the back side of the tray. I used a 13/64 drill bit to make the holes. This is a "Little Sloppy" around the edges but does the job. See pic:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Should also work for Large Rifle/Pistol primer work; just use the correct primer tray to make the tool from.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    I'm interested in what you find out. Prime All is here i Colo so picked up a couple of bags and put them on the shelf for now. Still got plenty of primers, But you never know how long they'll last. I'll be whatching for your testing.
    Thanks

  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
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    Just saw you said the primers were dirty? Yea you need to clean them like your brass.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master



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    Comment on materials:

    The primer mix will stick to plastic (static cling probably); not nearly as much on the CCI plastic tray. Does stick to the yellow Harbor Freight Funnel tray; use a credit card or your favorite business card (like maybe that used car salesman guy's business card) as "Push broom" to pile up the powder that falls into the pastic tray, and then back into the Primer Powder mixing/or storage container.

    The primer mix DOES NOT stick to glass. This is why I called out the Glass storage jars and the Glass Shot glass for mixing the Prime-All powders all together for the Primer Mix. I initially used a Clear Plastic top from a can of Wall Board texture spray to mix in. It worked, and tapping the side would cause the powder to fall into a bottom corner pile; but the mix DOES stick to the plastic (Static Cling).

    GLASS is more better for mixing and storing LIMITED AMOUNTS of mixed Prime-All Primer Mix.

    CAUTION: The vendor, and a variety of videos all stress mixing SMALL AMOUNTS; same for storing the Mixed Primer Compound. To date I have been only using a single unit (2 + 1 +1 +1) of the components. At a later date I may go to two or even three units; but for my testing no need for a large amount to be mixed at one time. Remember; it is shock sensitive when mixed.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

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    Note to OP...We know it isn't a real alternative to getting primers....But IT SURE IS FUN ISN'T IT?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traffer View Post
    Note to OP...We know it isn't a real alternative to getting primers....But IT SURE IS FUN ISN'T IT?
    I will never want to get that stir crazy.
    Don Verna


  12. #12
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    What's next? - reloading 22's.

    OMG someone's trying it!
    You don't have to attend every argument you're invited to.

  13. #13
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    MUSTANG
    In your BOM I see a can of shellac. I *** u me that this is intended for sealing compound into cup, but I did not see where you had tried this. Did I miss it, or is there more to come? I have been basically paralleling your experiments but have not tried a foil over the compound. Factory primers seem to have a hard / dried compound that adheres to the cup. How to do that?
    AKA "Old Vic"
    "I am a great believer in powder-burning".
    --Theodore Roosevelt, Hunting Trips of a Ranchman

  14. #14
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    If you have corrosive primer compound, you're going to need to use water to clean the firearms you test this in. Hot soapy water is, I believe, traditional, and should work well. I got my primer mix middle of last week, I think I'll wait to let you make as many of the mistakes as possible before I try. Thanks!
    Bill

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    Hi guys the factory primers are compressed into the cup. I have done this in making percussion caps with the prime -all. I made a rod that barely fit into the cup and put that into a drill press. I could apply what must have been at least 40 to 50 lbs of pressure . That did it. . No explosions all was well. I use a very thin shellac solution ,it's mixed with denatured alcohol. I used that as a binder.Acetone mixed with a drop of Duco Cement also works nicely as a binder. I just used a match stick bottom end as a dip stick to put a small amt. of the binder into the cups. No paper or foil is needed. I rarely get a failure .Maybe one out of a hundred. Note I no longer bother with the drill press to compress the charge. I do still use hand pressure though. Probably 10Lbs. I do work with small batches. Enough to make 20 caps. As a extra safety measure I mix with water and fill the cups while still damp.
    n.h.schmidt

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    If it ever comes to where we have to do a lot of reloading of primers, I still can imagine for a small investment, being able to reload Berdan primers fast enough and in large enough quantities to really make it worthwhile.
    As necessity is the mother of invention...when the time comes I or someone else will start making the drawing dies to manufacture new Berdan primers. Boxer primers could be manufactured at home also but an additional punch operation would be necessary to make the anvils.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Doughty View Post
    MUSTANG
    In your BOM I see a can of shellac. I *** u me that this is intended for sealing compound into cup, but I did not see where you had tried this. Did I miss it, or is there more to come? I have been basically paralleling your experiments but have not tried a foil over the compound. Factory primers seem to have a hard / dried compound that adheres to the cup. How to do that?
    My next Test post will show use of the mixture of 10 parts 91% Alcohol and 1 part shellac. Parts are placed in a glass jar with lid. Use a sharp Dental pick to load a fine drop on the Dental pick and place on top of the Paper Foil/Primer mix; before placing the anvil on the cup and seating it. Prior to Test #4 I have not used the Shellac Mix. Currently waiting a couple more hours before Testing Firing on Test #4. Wanted to allow 36 hours for the "Primer Mix" to totally dry out.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrounge View Post
    If you have corrosive primer compound, you're going to need to use water to clean the firearms you test this in. Hot soapy water is, I believe, traditional, and should work well. I got my primer mix middle of last week, I think I'll wait to let you make as many of the mistakes as possible before I try. Thanks!
    Bill

    My hours of Mozilla Firefox based search lead to some interesting items I'll share along the way. (Used to use Google Foo - but their spying and politics have caused me to war off Google Foo for anything).

    There are a wide variety of "Positions" on cleaning corrosive primer compounds. These tend to be reduced to Hot Soapy Water or Hoppe's #9. Both positions decry the other as being plagued with problems. Found that Hoppe's # 9 was actually created to address cleaning of Corrosive Primer residue attacking the chambers/barrels of rifles (Hoppe's #1 to #8 were unsuccessful). When I first went into the USMC there were still "Old Salts" around from the 1940's and 1950's who swore by (at) cleaning with hot soapy water.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by n.h.schmidt View Post
    Hi guys the factory primers are compressed into the cup. I have done this in making percussion caps with the prime -all. I made a rod that barely fit into the cup and put that into a drill press. I could apply what must have been at least 40 to 50 lbs of pressure . That did it. . No explosions all was well. I use a very thin shellac solution ,it's mixed with denatured alcohol. I used that as a binder.Acetone mixed with a drop of Duco Cement also works nicely as a binder. I just used a match stick bottom end as a dip stick to put a small amt. of the binder into the cups. No paper or foil is needed. I rarely get a failure .Maybe one out of a hundred. Note I no longer bother with the drill press to compress the charge. I do still use hand pressure though. Probably 10Lbs. I do work with small batches. Enough to make 20 caps. As a extra safety measure I mix with water and fill the cups while still damp.
    n.h.schmidt

    ^ +1. Will discuss some of this in later Test Data.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    How long will it be before someone sets up a "custom primer reloading" business?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check