Lyman 48 slide swap/availability

[brnomauser]

So I’ve been thinking about a receiver sight for my 7x57 build on an m98. I was always assuming a wanted a steel 57 SME but I’ve recently discovered 48Ms, which seem to be even more of a good thing! Problem is they’re hard to find and pricey... If I was I find say just a base, how realistic is it that I could find a slide to fit it? Apart from the dog leg ones, are they generally the same (apart from length)? I know they’re meant to be stoned/hand fitted but this aside, do they interchange? And how much do they vary between different sights with regards to how much they’re fitted - would be wrong one be very sloppy or just a bit? Could they be shimmed to tighten them up?

[Bent Ramrod]

I put a 48 “Long Slide” on a 48 base that (I think) is meant for a Winchester Model 54. The numbers obviously don’t match. The slide goes up and down without any noticeable binding or looseness, but when the little spring half-nut is fully closed around the screw, it only turns a couple clicks and jams.

I haven’t seriously looked at the assembly beyond that. It appears that the screw pitch is the same and perhaps leaving the half nut half unscrewed, or lapping the parts together, would make the unit work, after a fashion.

They were allegedly a target grade sight when newly made (1/2, and later, 1/4 MOA per click was claimed), so it may be that the screw and nut were the precision parts hand fitted.

A lot of the glamour associated with the sight vanished in the late 60s-early 70s, when people put dial indicators to the sights and saw the several thousandths of slop that sometimes existed between clicks. Those sights that were tested may have been more or less well-used specimens, or, equally likely, the squawks of perfectionists who finally found something to squawk about.

[brnomauser]

Interesting about your binding slide - it does sound like maybe a thread mismatch but I would have thought that’s unlikely. I guess binding is better than too loose as once you find the source you can get it to fit properly...

Problem with putting a dial indicator on something and moving it around is you generally always find some play. Would’ve thought they’d be better off just shooting it and not worrying about a thou or two!

[Bent Ramrod]

The little spring clutch and half-nut can be loosened and the slide moved up and down by hand and then tightened back in place for a reasonable elevation setting against the little scale on the slide. There’s also a skinny screw through the slide to set to a default elevation for the load and distance so the operator can quickly slide back to it after a day of clicking around zeroing experimental loads or whatever.

Certainly, such a marriage would still be useful as a sight for most people, especially if the price was right. Scrounging through trays of loose parts at gun shows have often turned up a base or slide for a couple bucks. You do need to do your research and know what you’re looking at, especially as the “48-x” stamp on the inside of the orphan base is often filed or ground away for a better fit on a receiver. Whatever part you get first, take it with you to try against the rest of the sight, when you find it.

The windage on the slide works fine, after the proper elevation is set. Only target shooters are constantly adjusting their settings; most shooters are happy to “set and forget.”

[W.R.Buchanan]

I wouldn't try to buy parts and hope they fit together. There are plenty of these complete sights on Ebay in every condition and yes sometimes they are expensive.

However, I have never seen one that was "worn out." You couldn't move one enough times in a lifetime to do that. I have seen plenty that were abused and none of them came to my house. You usually get good pictures if the seller is reputable. Choose wisely.

The little set screw that is the Elevation Stop is there to repeat your "Mechanical Zero." You slip the half nut on the elevation screw and go back down to the stop and release the half nut, and you will be right back at your starting point. Your "Mechanical Zero."

After you sight the gun in at your preferred distance, generally 100 or 200 yards, you run that screw down until it hits the base and you zero the knobs and scales.. This becomes your "Mechanical Zero" and should normally be done with your preferred load or brand of ammo most used in the gun. Generally the fastest load you would shoot. That way all slower loads result in Positive Elevation changes which are easily accomplished with the sight.

These sights are worth the money even if you have to pay $200 bucks for one. I have several of them on both my Leverguns and Springfield Rifles. They all were purchased off Ebay and all were taken apart and cleaned and touched up so they look new.

The Lyman and Redfield Receiver sights were among the best Aperture Sights for sporting rifles ever made, and thinking you have old eyes and can see them is BS. You just have to put in a little time to learn how to use them and you will be better off for it !

Randy

[muskeg13]

You might consider looking on ebay for Redfield Model 70 or Model 80 sights. I prefer these to the one Lyman Model 57 SME I have mounted on an M95 Steyr Carbine. While the Redfield sights will be marked with an M on the inside for Mauser, you can also mount a S for M1903 Springfield or an R for the Remington Model 30 or M1917 and P14 Enfields on your M98. The Redfield Model 70 slides are interchangeable, but the arm widths vary. I've had to mix/match to occasionally gain more windage adjustment. The Redfield Model 70 is meant to be used as the primary rear sight on a rifle without a scope, but the smaller Model 80, with a quick release slide, can be mounted as a back up sight for a rifle with a scope or used as the primary rear sight.

[brnomauser]

thanks guys guys, I know in my heart you’re right - buying parts and trying to cobble a sight together is a mistake. Although i still wouldn’t rule out swapping the base maybe if I can’t find a complete 3rd gen (notched so the stock doesn’t have to be), but that would still involve buying a complete sight.

What I’m trying to decide now is whether I should shoot for a 48 or settle for a 57 or maybe even redfield... I like the idea of a smaller less obtrusive sight like a 57 but also the dew of the top of the line 48 is strong!

You might consider looking on ebay for Redfield Model 70 or Model 80 sights. I prefer these to the one Lyman Model 57 SME I have mounted on an M95 Steyr Carbine. While the Redfield sights will be marked with an M on the inside for Mauser, you can also mount a S for M1903 Springfield or an R for the Remington Model 30 or M1917 and P14 Enfields on your M98. The Redfield Model 70 slides are interchangeable, but the arm widths vary. I've had to mix/match to occasionally gain more windage adjustment. The Redfield Model 70 is meant to be used as the primary rear sight on a rifle without a scope, but the smaller Model 80, with a quick release slide, can be mounted as a back up sight for a rifle with a scope or used as the primary rear sight.

I have considered a refield, but there are a couple of things that have put me off. The first is that I can’t get my head around the model nomenclature, so I can’t work out the sight I need. You say I need to look for the M stamped on the inside - but what if I can’t see it? And it’s not denoted in the model number? Also, I’ve heard proper say the slide/staff can’t be quick detached?

[muskeg13]

The Redfield Series 80 slide staff is quick detachable with the press of a release button on the base, the slide/staff on the Series 70 sights are not. On Redfield Series 70 or 80 sights, you are looking for a capital "M" stamped on either the sight base or staff. Some are marked on the inside curved radius, some are marked on one side of the base, some are marked on the staff, and some aren't marked. The Lyman 57SME stands for Springfield (1903)/Mauser (98)/Enfield (M1917, P14 or Remington Model 30), one sight fits all. Likewise, while Redfield saw fit to mark sights and label Series 70 and 80 boxes separately for Springfields, 98 Mausers and M1917 Enfields, the sights are essentially interchangeable. What you must be certain of is that for all 3 of these type rifles, the rounded portion of the sight base must be mounted on the right side of the receiver, just forward of the bolt handle, and you must be sure that the threaded portion of the windage mechanism that accepts a screw-in sight aperture disk is threaded to the rear. The arm extends from the base affixed to the right side of the receiver. It's opposite on a Model 70 Winchester. Due to the bolt stop on Mausers, 1903s and 1917s, the sights have to be mounted on the right side of the receiver.

[muskeg13]

Redfield Series 70 R (Remington Model 30, M1917 and P14 Enfield)
Redfield Series 80 Base M (98 Mauser)

[muskeg13]

Redfield 80 M Base with quick detachment button on left

[brnomauser]

Thanks Muskeg, that explains a lot.

However, I have taken up a cast Boolit member’s offer of a nice steel 57SME for a good price. I won’t have it for a little while but I’m very pleased with the outcome!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Nothing wrong with a 57 SME They are just a cut down #48 for use on Hunting Rifles as opposed to Target Rifles. They work exactly the same way, and are sighted in and set up exactly the same way as described above in post #5.

Randy