Proposed bullet design for an 1851 revolver.

[longbow]

I have to ask... why not just make a simple conical of length = ball diameter with a belt on it to ensure aligned loading? The belt will shear off as the boolit seats.

Belted Ball.pdf

A lube groove could be added if you want and if you want more weight length can be as long as the rammer will allow.

If you wanted a flat nose then RNFP but either way the nose would fit the rammer as is.

Just curious.

Longbow

[Erebos]

I want something closer to a modern design, with a broader flat frontal area than a conical so I could use it for dueling trees, plate racks, small game hunting, etc.

I already have conical molds on the way from Eras Gone. I want something different. Decades of advancement in bullet design theory never got applied to the 1851. That changes today.

[Erebos]

Version 3, based partly on feedback from Hellgate.

[Thundermaker]

Maybe round the outer edges of the bands. That way, you ensure that everything stays centered.


BTW, what make is your '51? It looks like it has a lot more clearance than mine did.

[Good Cheer]

Erebos,
This was my version of the idea that I decided not to pursue with a mold for Pietta .44's.
The rounded ends were how I planned on preserving the accuracy enhancing benefit of a hind end like a round ball while obtaining a higher sectional density as well as having a relatively blunt nose.
The long straight sides were going to be just a wee bit less in diameter than Pietta made their chambers, thus allowing entry into the chambers with alignment maintained.



One obvious problem with my initial design is that the opening in the blocks would have too much of a sharp edge. That would have been easy to fix. Still, I decided to pass on it and just enjoy tinkering with .45ACP and .45Colt molds.

[Erebos]

Mine is a new Pietta.

I'll ponder the advice in these last two comments. Thank you.

[Caswell Ranch]

If you could do a .36 copy of this maybe with square cut bands you may have a market for it,

This one is for the .44, drops into Pietta and Uberti cylinder with center band lining up the projectile and I'm sure on some guns the bottom band would drag, Over all length is .544 and the bands are top=.454, Mid=.449, bottom=.444 .

[Thundermaker]

If you could do a .36 copy of this maybe with square cut bands you may have a market for it,

This one is for the .44, drops into Pietta and Uberti cylinder with center band lining up the projectile .

I have a dragoon that might do well with that. What's the weight?

[Caswell Ranch]

I have a dragoon that might do well with that. What's the weight?

185.2 grains

[Erebos]

A R.E.A.L type bullet would likely work well, but I'll have to give up the idea of having a guide step at both ends that makes the bullet super easy to seat.

[Caswell Ranch]

A R.E.A.L type bullet would likely work well, but I'll have to give up the idea of having a guide step at both ends that makes the bullet super easy to seat.

The both ends thing O.K. but the ease of seating, I'm missing something.
I would think a setup like Top=.380, Mid=.375 and bottom at .370 or T=.378,M=.373 B=.370, would work well.
The problem with this kind of project is the gun manufacturer, there is no continuity from one brand to another regarding cylinder charge hole size and for that matter barrel groove depth, in some cases from one gun to another from the same manufacturer .
Most times it's just easier to shoot round ball .

[Soundguy]

It's got more bearing surface than a round ball, and those shoot just fine. Of the several concerns voiced here, this is the only one so far that doesn't seem to make sense to me.

bearing surface should be ok.. but it might tumble or load canted as some say.

I think a DEWC with a taper at each nose might be better...more stable.. and accomplish the same think.. less problems..

[Soundguy]

Erebos,
This was my version of the idea that I decided not to pursue with a mold for Pietta .44's.
The rounded ends were how I planned on preserving the accuracy enhancing benefit of a hind end like a round ball while obtaining a higher sectional density as well as having a relatively blunt nose.
The long straight sides were going to be just a wee bit less in diameter than Pietta made their chambers, thus allowing entry into the chambers with alignment maintained.



One obvious problem with my initial design is that the opening in the blocks would have too much of a sharp edge. That would have been easy to fix. Still, I decided to pass on it and just enjoy tinkering with .45ACP and .45Colt molds.

add 2 more driving bands to that and I think it would be perfect.. like the DEWC I was talking about.

[Good Cheer]

Not worried about maximizing the powder space in .44's these days so I just use .45 molds and size the back half of the boolits to slip into the chambers. Same for .41 caliber. For .36 caliber I use an adjustable length round ball mold with a hollow base.

[RU shooter]

add 2 more driving bands to that and I think it would be perfect.. like the DEWC I was talking about.

Agree or go with shallow grooves like a Lee TL design

[Soundguy]

Agreed.

[Good Cheer]

A Pietta isn't a cartridge revolver and I wouldn't want more bands or grooves.
With Pietta .44's the supplied chambers have been typically half way in between the barrels' bore and groove diameters. And, likely as not the chambers are going to have some amount of taper to them. But Pietta hasn't been consistent and my expectation is more changes in their manufacturing practices (but not in what I consider to be their unfortunate philosophy of chambers design). So accepting that a Pietta is a Pietta is a Pietta and unknown until thoroughly mic'd out, here's what I found when working towards maximizing the available momentum.

1) Lube grooves are a waste of space. You are giving up volume best used elsewhere.
2) Minimizing the amount of lead you have to shear is always the best policy. You can screw things up by forcing boolits into either Colt or Remington reproductions.
3) Seating depth of boolits can become even more important than usual depending upon how much taper your chambers have. Hence "length to suit" can be very important. If you're unlucky and aren't careful the hind end of the boolits will meet with resistance before the boolits are adequately seated into the chambers.
4) The chambers are undersized compared to the groove diameter so take advantage of the lead displacement caused by the rifling. Make the boolit fill the grooves by not letting it displace into lube grooves on the boolit.
5) Boolit designs that naturally create alignment with the bore and only need be seated into position provide the most consistent results.
6) The front end and the hind end are best rounded. That way you enjoy the benefits of a good steering end behind and a good lube holder crevice around the periphery in front.

As previously stated I ended up working with .45 molds, sizing the back half of the boolits to slip into the chambers and create their own alignment. They have lube grooves and long noses that just waste large amounts of powder space but so what, I'm not trying to flank a bunch of infantry or defend the wagons.

On a side note, the side of the barrel on an 1851 design turned into .44 can make loading anything but round ball a genuine pain.

For .41 caliber I use Ideal molds #41026, #41028, the Lee 195 grain semi-wadcutter and NEI's 185 grain round nose. For .36 caliber I use these rascals from an adjustable length mold.

[Soundguy]

Cartridge revolver is a conversion cyl away...

[Tar Heel]

It looks to me that the center of pressure and the center of gravity are coincidental. That will make the projectile inherently unstable despite any attempts to stabilize it with rotational force. It should make an awesome whistle or drone as it tumbles downrange at 600-700fps.

Even though a round ball meets the same stability criteria, the tipping force and righting force cancel each other or are nonexistent if you prefer to look at it that way. Ergo, rotational force will enhance a RB trajectory. Your design will be subject to intense tipping force and with coincidental Cp and Cg, will go bonkers especially if you add rotational force.

Try it anyway. Should be fun eh?

[Tar Heel]

The idea is to make something that's more effective on the target than a conical or a round ball, but easier to load than both, including for use in paper cartridges.

If the Holy Grail is what you seek
be sure you wish to - do not be meek
The search will take more than one week
so continue forward - do not get bleak
Keep rocking away till the floorboards creek
for the Holy Grail is what you seek.

Rocinante