Proposed bullet design for an 1851 revolver.

[TheOutlawKid]

I did 3 designs for .36 cal. Even one that is an REAL type design with a wider meplat. for some reason i cant load pics but heres a link explaining my designs and pics..
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...onical.865212/

And heres where i show a pic of the REAL design:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph....883534/page-2

[Good Cheer]

Thanks for the link. Always interesting to see designs.
I'd like to have a percussion revolver set up to use .44 Special molds but for now will be happy with using .45ACP and .45Colt molds.

[indian joe]

If the Holy Grail is what you seek
be sure you wish to - do not be meek
The search will take more than one week
so continue forward - do not get bleak
Keep rocking away till the floorboards creek
for the Holy Grail is what you seek.

Rocinante

I must have missed something in the translation - I am absolutely mystified as to what you fellers are trying to achieve here ???

"more effective on the target" ? in what way ??? Its a 38 for gosh sakes - want more effective why not get a 45?

I dunno how any of these funny little pills would be easier to load than a round ball ? much more difficult I bet ....

more accurate ? I doubt it - maybe - but it takes an olympic standard shooter to wring the best out of a decent roundball revolver

Ream yr cylinder and fit ball to barrel properly and you can shoot round ball with full house loads and get good accuracy .

This looks like a big dose of cabin fever to me

[Soundguy]

Ana.. It's called fixing problems that don't exist..practically.

[Good Cheer]

The difficulties of finding loading options was one of the factors that prompted me to have a .41 caliber 1851.

[Hellgate]

I think it's great to take on a challenge and come up with a new idea. Some people (including myself) figure that good enough is good enough but if it weren't for the tinkerers who can think outside the box we wouldn't have half the wonderful improvements we enjoy.
Go for it EREBOS!

[indian joe]

Ana.. It's called fixing problems that don't exist..practically.

aaah good so long as its done practically all will be well ................

[Mk42gunner]

I've never shot anything but round balls through any of the cap and ball revolvers I have owned or shot. I can see the utility of a heavier projectile, but since mine are basically plinkers or small game use, I don't need the potential extra penetration.

With all that written, I would make the diameter of a .36 conical .380 for general use, (I have three Navies, two do fine with a .375" ball, one needs a .380"). If only making a one of for a specific gun go with what that cylinder wants.

Robert

[405grain]

I like the first design that you posted. It has several advantages over a round ball or a conical design. The grease groove could be used not only to lubricate the bullet, but might also negate the need for putting grease over the cylinder charges to prevent chain fire. waksupi's concern about lack of bearing surface is well founded. With the narrow driving bands there might also be a tendency for the bullet to tip or become misaligned while being rammed into the cylinder. (A round ball doesn't cant like this because it's round and will always have the same surface area in contact with the cylinder walls no mater how you rotate it.) I'd suggest a modest alteration of the design of increasing the driving band width from .05" to around .08". This will increase the angle between the driving bands and the meplat a little bit, but not by much. I think that the original double-ended truncated cone design has more promise than the wadcutter design. As with anything that hasn't been done before, you won't know until you try.

[maillemaker]

Moose Moulds makes a similar "dumbell" shaped revolver bullet:

With rockets and aircraft and arrows, the center of pressure has to be behind the center of gravity (which is why the feathers on an arrow are at the back rather than the front". Otherwise the object wants to flip over and fly the other way. I don't know if this matters for a bullet that is spinning like a football.

[Good Cheer]

I must have missed something in the translation - I am absolutely mystified as to what you fellers are trying to achieve here ???

"more effective on the target" ? in what way ??? Its a 38 for gosh sakes - want more effective why not get a 45?

I dunno how any of these funny little pills would be easier to load than a round ball ? much more difficult I bet ....

more accurate ? I doubt it - maybe - but it takes an olympic standard shooter to wring the best out of a decent roundball revolver

Ream yr cylinder and fit ball to barrel properly and you can shoot round ball with full house loads and get good accuracy .

This looks like a big dose of cabin fever to me

I see a lot of that mindset. My interesting is the hobby itself. However, depending upon the individual revolver, the powder you use, the molds that you have or create, there are ways to increase penetration (depending upon what's being penetrated) and to increase the momentum of the striking projectile. And all that becomes a rather interesting problem to tinker with because the chamber volume is already set. Looking back through history the users of percussion revolvers developed means of overcoming specific problems such as how to poke a hole through multiple layers of cotton and wool, they put points on the bullets at the sacrifice of the volume of powder behind the bullet. They found a trade off that provided a solution to a specific task. These days there are people who hunt with percussion revolvers. My idea of hunting with percussion revolvers was rabbits in gravy not feral hogs but there's guys doing it, hunting tusky critters who are just aching for a chance to hook your femoral artery. More power to them and may their barbecues be many. I can see where they'd be wanting to up the penetration and the momentum. Rabbits didn't seem to put up much of an argument.

Some experiments I conducted years ago involved using various .45 molds in .44 percussion revolvers. To measure penetration mostly I used stacks of paper that had been soaked in water long enough to become a slimy gelled mess. A day or two soak time was generally enough. Great way to recycle old drawings and specifications.

In broad general terms the penetration found in my standardized gooey mess showed that trading off powder volume for more lead volume didn't give more penetration. But, the same powder charge under bullets that basically only differed in the shapes of their noses would give very different amounts of penetration. SWC's and round flat noses penetrated best. Spherical noses not as good and wadcutters the least. All pretty much what experience told me to expect but if you don't try it out then you don't know.

It's fun to work with and I enjoy the hobby so I sometimes do more than bounce tomato cans around the front yard when the curiosity bug bites me. Something I've been wanting to play with is the Dance revolver made by Pietta.

When you up the caliber to .44 the slab sides of the 1851 design interfer with the rotational radius of the chambers, making loading anything but a round ball a bit of a bother but I might be able to cobble up something with straight lead in a .45ACP hardball mold.
The reduced weight of the Dance model might make it a fun softball pitcher.

[Good Cheer]

Moose Moulds makes a similar "dumbell" shaped revolver bullet:

With rockets and aircraft and arrows, the center of pressure has to be behind the center of gravity (which is why the feathers on an arrow are at the back rather than the front". Otherwise the object wants to flip over and fly the other way. I don't know if this matters for a bullet that is spinning like a football.

In slower twist barrels at revolver speeds at might matter more than we'd think. Reminds my of the experiments in the 1800's finding that minies with lube grooves didn't need as fast of a twist as those with smooth sides.

[maillemaker]

I am absolutely mystified as to what you fellers are trying to achieve here ???

I don't know what OP is trying to achieve but for myself, I'm a competition shooter in the N-SSA. So for me it's all about accuracy at 25 and 50 yards.

I have not yet found a "Holy Grail" of a revolver bullet but I sure did for muzzle loaders - the Moose 577-420 Wilkinson. I'm always questing for that "perfect bullet". Maybe I'll find one for the revolver one day. I hope the Moose one does it - not enough testing yet though.

Steve

[robertbank]

48 posts vs 18,320 Mr. Frebos I have known Waksupi for a very long time, Some folks speak volumes with very few words. You might want to rethink your stand. Most of the guys that weened me into this hobby are gone now to my deepest regret. Enjoy those who remain. Just saying. My advice, cut the mold, and let us know what you learned.

Take Care

Bob

[Good Cheer]

Recently acquired one of the fast twist 1858's.
Definitely a good one for .45 pistol mold experiments.