Proposed bullet design for an 1851 revolver.

[Erebos]

I'm working on a concept for a symmetrical double-ended semi wadcutter design for my 36 caliber 1851 revolver. The idea is to make something that's more effective on the target than a conical or a round ball, but easier to load than both, including for use in paper cartridges. The diameter as modeled is .375", with a weight in pure lead of about 129 grains. Thoughts, feedback, suggestions?

[TNsailorman]

Isn't that going to require a reshape of the rammer nose? I like the idea though. james

[Erebos]

I "think" the rammer nose on mine is mostly flat. I'll double check and see if I can get a decent photo of that.

ETA: The end of the rammer has a shallow cup shape. It'll probably deform a flat bullet nose slightly, but I don't really see a problem with that.

[bedbugbilly]

Interesting . . and thanks for the post.

I have been shooting '51 Navies for probably close to 58 years now - I have always had good luck with round ball - currently have the eras gone Colt Cartridge conical and it shoots well out of my 36s. Some conicals I have had luck with and some not so good.

I think what you show has some possibilities - the taper on both ends should allow it to seat well in the chamber - lube groove and bore bearing area should give decent lube and flip through the bore. The only real way to know is to cut a mold and give it a try and see how it flies.

Do you have the ability to cut a mold or are you going to have to have it cut? Tom at accurate hold be able to make one if you don't have the tools, etc. to do it.

Keep us posted on how it ends up. If it worked well, I'd certainly give it a try.

[Hellgate]

You might consider two more diameter steps. You've got the .375 driving band on either side of the grease groove. I would consider another band the same width next to it of .370 and a 3rd band at .365 so when the bullet is positioned in the chamber it automatically lands on a band that aligns it vertically for ramming. One of the problems with bullets (as opposed to balls) is getting them rammed in but canted off center. I could see your bullet getting a slight tilt unless the lips of the chamber catches on the edge of the .375 diameter band. Different manufacturers and worn tooling can create some varied cylinder chamber diameters. The stepped diameters would make it more adaptable to a variety of 36 calibers.

The central grease groove is certainly thinking outside the envelope and looks quite modern.

[waksupi]

I would bet it won't shoot worth a darn. Not enough bearing surface.

[Markopolo]

looks like an invitation to tumble ?? but what do I know.

[Erebos]

I don't have the tools or skills to cut a mold, so I'll have to have someone else do it. I'll check out the company you suggested, bedbugbilly.

[Erebos]

"I would bet it won't shoot worth a darn. Not enough bearing surface."

It's got more bearing surface than a round ball, and those shoot just fine. Of the several concerns voiced here, this is the only one so far that doesn't seem to make sense to me.

[Thundermaker]

I'm assuming one of the intended benefits of this design is that it won't matter which end goes in the chamber. It will most likely require some modification to the gun for loading, but just about all conicals do. The angle could help center it. Only one way to know for sure.

[Erebos]

The first design posted here is .47" long from end-to-end, and the opening in the frame is about .56" tall, so no modification to the gun should be required to get it to fit.

[Thundermaker]

The first design posted here is .47" long from end-to-end, and the opening in the frame is about .56" tall, so no modification to the gun should be required to get it to fit.

The height isn't the issue, it's the width. The repros have narrower windows with less bevel than originals. I had to significantly widen and bevel my 1851s for the lee conical. These may not protrude enough to have to worry about it. Like I said, only one way to know for sure.

[Erebos]

I'm trying a few of the other suggestions here on a second model. There's no really good way to have 3 driving bands, 2 grease grooves, a .365" guide step, and keep the weight around 130 grains without just turning it into something very close to a full wadcutter. I also have concerns that it might take a lot of force to ram in 3 driving bands. Adding an extra driving band and using a guide step instead of a taper adds a lot of weight. On the upside, this makes the design even shorter and easier to get into the loading hole in the frame. This second version is only .44" long.

[Erebos]

Like I said, only one way to know for sure.

The point of modeling it in the computer first, is so I can measure everything and I don't have to guess. I don't like guessing. Guessing is expensive and wasteful. Using a short, squat bullet design that seats partially into the chamber before entering the loading window ensures there won't be an interference problem.

It'll also have a better effect on the target than the pointy originals. Putting a sharp point on a pistol bullet that's going to be used inside 25 yards always seemed really pointless to me. Pun fully intended.

[Thundermaker]

Well, cast out of pure lead, it probably won't be that bad. Casting it out of anything harder would be out of the question. I would still put a slight bevel around the edges of the wadcutter just to make sure the ram doesn't bite into it and try to pull it back out.

[Erebos]

I'm going to 3D print test items for both of these in the next day or so, then see what I see. Rapid prototyping FTW.

[Erebos]

I'll probably reduce the diameter of the guide step on the wadcutter design a bit to make room for the paper wrap when used in a cartridge.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Erebos,

I'm no expert, but if you shortened the nose it might work.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Thundermaker]

Hello Erebos,

I'm no expert, but if you shortened the nose it might work.

AntiqueSledMan.

Don't know if I'd make the length shorter than the diameter.

[Erebos]

The suggestion to make the nose shorter does not seem to be accompanied by a reason.