Are Small Pistol Magnum & Small Rifle Primers Safe in 9mm?

[Larry Gibson]

Look Bob, there's no need for me to "settle down" as I am not concerned in the least. You want to take the risk you go right ahead. As I've previously said numerous times we are, or at least should be, free to make our own choices.

Also no need to be condescending. You criticize my use of 357 and 44 magnum test data in lieu of 9mm data yet use the 40 S&W (? because you sure didn't use a 235 gr bullet in the 9mm) as an example. You want to walk everything back then walk it. I don't care.

An honest question was asked by the OP and I answered with actual test data pointing out there could be a pressure problem. I did not tell the OP something I have gotten away with whether I really knew it could be hazardous or not as you are doing. I also told the OP what I would do if I had to use SR primers in the 9mm. I don't as I have a good supply of both primers for my own shooting needs.

I have explained everything to you in detail. If you want to understand it then you will. If you don't you won't. If you want to accept it you will, if you don't you won't. It's up to you, so, again, do as you will.

If you have any other questions the answers have already been given in my initial report and in answers to subsequent questions you ask because you obviously fail to read what I've written. Thus, I guess in todays jargon; "I'll have to circle back to you".......

[44MAG#1]

357 Magnum
Hodgdon H4227 0.357"1.580" 14.5 1,402 34,600 CUP 16.0 1,520 42,600 CUP

[Jniedbalski]

Odd, s&b sells these primers that are for rifle, pistol & revolvers. Been using them 10+/- years now in the 223rem's, 9mm's, 38spl's,357's.

[IMG][/IMG]

. Me and the local gun shop went round and round on this same thing. It says for rifle pistole or revolver on the package but they have a sp or sr on the package. Also if you look up on there sight look up the number on the carton. For the sp one it says for small pistole. The number on the carton with the sr says small rifle use. Why they label it this way I don’t know but there are two different boxes with two different numbers

[Jniedbalski]

I have used this primer for five years or so. My local gun shop always had them and where 5 to $6 $ cheeper. I bought thousands of them. I have boxes with sp, sr, and lp, lr, on them. Both the sp , and sr ones both have for rifle pistole or revolver use . I tried once a few light loads in 38 special with the sr ones and all seemed ok. This is after the gun shop told me they where the same. They told me see it says so on the box. After I shot them I looked up the number on the box on there web site. The number on the box with sp comes up with small pistole use. The sr number on the box comes up with small rifle. Now I only use sp for pistole only

[Lloyd Smale]

Listen to Larry or this could be you

geez i can post this picture and say dont burn premium gas in your car too.

[Lloyd Smale]

ill say this. Like ive said ive done it for years. Shot almost the entire year during the last shortage using cci mag pistol primers in all my small pistol primered handguns and in my ar15s. Had no choice. its what i had and it was that or lock the safe up and stop shooting. I did back my loads off to middle ground loads in the loading manuals and didnt try going a grain or two about book levels. Heck i dont do that anymore anyway. Never saw where a 100 fps made a difference in any gun. But as to me giving my opinion on here and saying im responsible for someone stupid enough to swap out a std primer for a mag and load 3 grains over book and blow there hand off ill say this. Im not your mommy and i sure cant fix stupid. if your that type of an idiot then the internet is where you should come to for advice.


Maybe do a search for home dentistry too and fill your own cavity. The carrnage that pictured glock shows sure as heck wasnt caused by a book load with just a mag primer swapped in. Ive seen to glocks that were destroyed by overloads. Both 357 sigs. Neither came apart. Matter of fact the guy that owned the first one said the slide spread open a bit and he took a hammer smacked it and it worked fine. Still sent it into glock and they replaced it. the other one had spread slide and a slight crack in the plastic right by the slide release. To blow a gun up like that takes ALOT of pressure. Like a case full of bullseye pressure.

ME? I tell it like i see it. I dont pass on internet advice or post math equations or theory. I gave my real world experience. Been doing it on here longer then probably anyone in this discussion and havent got a single person hurt and have to think my opinions have respect here. Betcha lots of guys told old elmer he was nuts when he was loading 44 specials up to mag levels or told John Linebaugh he was nuts for standing on 45 colts. Or Bob baker for comming out with revolvers that operated at rifle pressures. Funny thing is there all still alive (except for elmer) and they never lost as much as a finger nail. Why? Probably part of the reason was there was no internet! Second is God put something between there ears called a brain. They had the sense to work up to where they got slowly. Elmer even destroyed a few guns getting there. Mostly shot them loose. Was he stupid or crazy in your opinion??

Like i said i gave you my opinion. Take it or leave it thats your prerogative. But dont be so stupid as to think that i would post it if i hadnt actually done it and done it alot and knew it wouldnt hurt you. Ive seen a few others on here that say theyve done it too and not a single guy that said hes even damaged a gun doing it let alone hurt himself. So If you want a pat on the back or someone to say your answer is the only right one then maybe go visit your mom. Because I dont give pats on the back and am intellegent enough to take ANYONES INTERNET ADVICE WITH CAUTION. Please do the same with my advice.

Let me close by asking this. then im out of here. How many preaching you cant swap out a mag primer with common sense loading havent loaded with there 06 or 270 on day and swapped out a speer bullet for a sierra in the same weight and design? Did you use the data in the speer manual for that speer bullet and then go to a sierra manual for the sierra bullet? Bottom line is swapping bullets can raise pressures as much as a primer. What about your cast bullet loads?? ive never seen a single source for loading data that singles out a specific cast bullet other then lymans for there molds. How can you possibly load in the blind like that without blowing your hand off How many times have i seen keith level 44 special loads posted here? Heavy bullet 45 loads that are closer to 454s then 45 colt saa loads. 45/70 loads!!!! Nope you do it too. Just like i do. So dont throw rocks in a glass house.

[charlie b]

.....Elmer even destroyed a few guns getting there. Mostly shot them loose

So, even if someone has a brain and works up loads carefully they may destroy their gun. Good to know.

[Larry Gibson]

And Bob says I should settle down........

[Forrest r]

. Me and the local gun shop went round and round on this same thing. It says for rifle pistole or revolver on the package but they have a sp or sr on the package. Also if you look up on there sight look up the number on the carton. For the sp one it says for small pistole. The number on the carton with the sr says small rifle use. Why they label it this way I don’t know but there are two different boxes with two different numbers

I understand, the one's I use/buy say small rifle on the side. I use them in 38spl, 9mm & 223rem cases.

38spl:
I use the s&b 4.4 sr primers in the 38spl cases when I make p+ loads/hot loads using power pistol or 2400. The is no real difference in velocity but a huge difference in the es's of those loads. These primers also take a lot of the pistol up/powder up vs pistol down/powder down out of play.

9mm:
I use the s&b sr primers for my 9mm target loads. The powder /load I use is 100% case capacity with the bullet/oal combo that I use. Targets don't lie, the 10-shot groups shrank 1/2"+ @ 50ft when I switched from the federal sp primers to the s&b 4.4 sr primers.

357's:
I use the s&b sr primers when I use mp-300, h110 or 269 power. I don't use starting loads with any of these powders, hot/heavy loads are the norm.

I'm not telling anyone to either use or not use sr primers, mag primers or any primer at all.

I will say that I use the s&b sr primers for specific applications.

[44MAG#1]

And Bob says I should settle down........

Great. Once one learns to accept most on here,
including the most learned on here, will do as they want, frees one to move on and let it go.
It also helps one to move forward to other endeavors.
I for one am greatful for the info. But I still will do as I have done in the past.
We all do that in our lives with a lot of things we are given advice on.
Eg, driving down or up an unfamiliar highway whose speed limit is 55 MPH, up comes a yellow sign indicating caution a curve is coming up and a "SUGGESTED" safe speed limit of 40 MPH, do you really drop down to 40 MPH?
You may slow down some be cause if the normal speed limit is 55 I am sure you will be going over it. Or do we stay 55 MPH simply because someone says 55 MPH even on the open highway which is deemed safe by someone somewhere just as the 45 MPH is on the yellow sign.
Not much if a good example of all this but maybe the idea may be noticed.

[Forrest r]

I've been following this thread & I just shake my head. Why anyone would compare a IMHO poor/weak 357 load to a 9mm case/load is beyond me.

That 357 load (6.0gr of unique) is a weak/barely above a starting load to begin with. Everyone knows how well unique/starting loads perform. Then you add hot/higher pressure primers into the mix & "TTTTAAAAADDDDAAAA". For some odd reason the results show erratic pressure spikes.

Gee I wonder why??? Perhaps there would be the same results with 7.5gr of hs-6???

It's just a hunch but I don't think the results would be the same if that 357 pressure test was done with 15.5gr of H110 or full house loads of WW296.

Perhaps it's because the 6gr of unique only 40% of the case capacity of the 357 case. 40% capacity of a 9mm case would be 3.2gr of unique.

A 357 case holds 15gr of unique
A 9mm case holds 8gr of unique

[onelight]

I've been following this thread & I just shake my head. Why anyone would compare a IMHO poor/weak 357 load to a 9mm case/load is beyond me.

That 357 load (6.0gr of unique) is a weak/barely above a starting load to begin with. Everyone knows how well unique/starting loads perform. Then you add hot/higher pressure primers into the mix & "TTTTAAAAADDDDAAAA". For some odd reason the results show erratic pressure spikes.

Gee I wonder why??? Perhaps there would be the same results with 7.5gr of hs-6???

It's just a hunch but I don't think the results would be the same if that 357 pressure test was done with 15.5gr of H110 or full house loads of WW296.

Perhaps it's because the 6gr of unique only 40% of the case capacity of the 357 case. 40% capacity of a 9mm case would be 3.2gr of unique.

A 357 case holds 15gr of unique
A 9mm case holds 8gr of unique

I asked Larry a similar question in a thread that parallels this one. And he posted a test he conducted with 2400 in .357 go to post 13 to see the results he had.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...the-357-Magnum

[Forrest r]

I asked Larry a similar question in a thread that parallels this one. And he posted a test he conducted with 2400 in .357 go to post 13 to see the results he had.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...the-357-Magnum

OK, what does 2400 have to do with H110 or WW296???

[onelight]

OK, what does 2400 have to do with H110 or WW296???

Only that it is close to a full case in .357 and 2400 has loads recommended for both standard and mag primers.
I have not seen any loads for 296 or 110 that recommend non magnum primers .

[blackthorn]

From post #89: "9mm:
I use the s&b sr primers for my 9mm target loads. The powder /load I use is 100% case capacity with the bullet/oal combo that I use. Targets don't lie, the 10-shot groups shrank 1/2"+ @ 50ft when I switched from the federal sp primers to the s&b 4.4 sr primers."

The above quote refers to interchanging Federal SP to S&B SR primers. As I understand, an earlier statement was made that S&B 4.4 SP and SR primers were identified as interchangeable. Maybe I missed it but I am left to wonder if those specific S&B (SP?SR) primers were tested in the same firearm to see if indeed there were any variation in performance when switched??

[Jniedbalski]

Here is a picture of the page on S&b web site.it has different numbers for sp and sr. [ATTACH=CONFIG]277080[/ATTAC[ATTACH=CONFIG]277080[/ATTACH

[Jniedbalski]

My S&b large pistole and large rifle primer boxes also say for rifle pistole revolver

[Larry Gibson]

My S&b large pistole and large rifle primer boxes also say for rifle pistole revolver

All S&B primer boxes say the same thing. S&B lists different product numbers for different primers and recommended use. My take on that is S&B is simply saying S&B makes primers for loading rifle, pistole and revolver cartridges. Perhaps in Europe they expect the user to use the correct product with the correct cartridge?

[Larry Gibson]

44Mag#1

Your choice to do as you've done in the past. I'm not telling anyone not to. I've said numerous times what i would do. All I've done is present factual test data. How anyone chooses to use it is up to them.

[Jniedbalski]

Larry that’s what I thought also. It just means for use in rifle pistole and revolvers as a general use. You still have to pick the correct box. I have used small rifle S&b in the past but don’t now. I used them in low speed 38 special loads just to try. I might have to use the sr primers if the shortage keeps going for awhile. But would rather not.