Using RCBS sizing dies in a Lyman #45

[DonMountain]

I have been using an RCBS LAM-II for the last 25 years or so, and have bought most of my sizing dies from RCBS with 3 or 4 Lyman sizing dies. Recently I acquired a Lyman #45 Lubricator/Sizer, and cleaned it all out and set it up ready to use. My question is, what do I need to do to use those RCBS sizing dies in the Lyman #45 since they don't have the groove around them for the retaining Allen headed screw to fit into? Or should I just use it with those few Lyman dies I have? Are there any tricks to using this Lyman #45 that's different from the RCBS?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

First I don't like RCBS dies.
But I have used them in a Lyman 45, when that was my only choice.
I ground a flat, in the spot where I wanted the set screw to connect.

I have been swapping out all the RCBS dies that I had...I believe I have them all replaced, if memory serves me?

[DonMountain]

First I don't like RCBS dies.
But I have used them in a Lyman 45, when that was my only choice.
I ground a flat, in the spot where I wanted the set screw to connect.

I have been swapping out all the RCBS dies that I had...I believe I have them all replaced, if memory serves me?

Thanks JonB for the help with this. If I decide to try one of my RCBS dies in the #45 Lubricator/Sizer, I can see where I could mount one of those small grinding wheels with a 1/4" shaft in my drill press and slide the die against it on top of a sliding surface for a more precise location and shape of the ground spot. I assume the reason you got rid of your RCBS dies because the Lyman sizing dies are already set up for your collection of #45's? Or is there another reason that you "don't like" the RCBS dies? I never really noticed much of a difference in their use and just generally bought the RCBS dies because I use an RCBS sizer.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Not liking RCBS dies:
I could probably chalk it up to personal preference.
btw, I also dislike the new style Lyman dies with O-ring.
I also dislike the Lyman 450.

The Lyman O-ring dies and RCBS dies likely work very good in the Lyman 450, I've never used a RCBS LAM,,,but can assume the same.

The old style Lyman dies with no O-ring, have a slightly larger diameter on the top, making them fit the Lyman 45 and Ideal #1 better, it's a mechanical fit (I think I'm using the correct term?).

I've had the newer Lyman O-ring dies and RCBS dies, when installed in a Lyman 45, fit slightly sloppy in the hole, so when the set screw is tightened, it creates misalignment, and in worst cases, I get lube leakage out the top of the die. The #1 I have is the worst. Now this is NOT always the case with all the 45s I've had, but it happens more for often, than not. I've had quite a few sizers over the years, both 45 and 450, I was a bit of a collector. Now I'm down to three 45s, a #1, and two Stars.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Also, if you happen to have the problem I describe with your 45 and the RCBS die, one thing I've done is to wrap one layer of aluminum tape around the top of the die, to 'shim' the die into the center of the hole in the 45.

[Bazoo]

That's good info JonB, thanks for sharing that.

[DonMountain]

Also, if you happen to have the problem I describe with your 45 and the RCBS die, one thing I've done is to wrap one layer of aluminum tape around the top of the die, to 'shim' the die into the center of the hole in the 45.

Thank you very much JonB for this information about die fit in these old #45's. It prompted me to actually go measure some of these dies:
Old Lyman #45 die without O-Ring = 0.728" in diameter
New Lyman #4500 die with O-Ring = 0.720" in diameter
RCBS LAM-II die with O-Ring = 0.720" in diameter

So, my conclusion is, in order to use a "new" Lyman O-Ring die or an RCBS die in a #45 Lubrisizer, a shim as JonB suggested of 0.004" tape is required to center one of these dies. Which is problematic with interference with the o-rings in these dies. I have also noticed the Lyman die I removed from my #45 when I first bought it, is an awful tight fit back in the sizer. So tight that I would either have to force it back in or drive it in with something non-marring. So, now the problem is, what do I do with it?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

try your O-ring die first, before you shim it. Maybe it'll be OK...like I mentioned, this isn't a "every time" problem.
As to your old style die that's tight, try rotating the die as you insert it. I would never use "heavy" force on a die into a 45, I use the press to push it in, with reasonable force, and there have been occasions where I've left a die sit up a few thousands, if it won't go in any farther.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

tight die:
also, look for crud or obstructions in the bottom of the Die hole, as that fit should be tight as well and if some crud is on the area where the bottom of the die seats to, you will have difficulty fully seating the die.

[Mk42gunner]

I don't have a 45, kind of like to try one out some time.

What I do to push the H&I die into my LAM is put a coin on the top and use the ram to gently press it into place.

Robert

[Bazoo]

I don't have a 45, kind of like to try one out some time.

What I do to push the H&I die into my LAM is put a coin on the top and use the ram to gently press it into place.

Robert

I did the coin thing with my 450 until I realized the ram will push the die and ring in. It also holds the ring square so the threads will start without cross threading. To get the die out, I put a top punch between the stirrup and the push rod and lift up, after I loosen the nut of coarse.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hey Guys,

I've built a couple using this print, but I do have an old Lyman 450.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Jim22]

Well I just learned something. I have an old Lyman 45 lube-sizer. It's mounted to a heat plate because I am using White's Carnauba Red lube. When the heater is on and I ratchet up pressure on the lube I get a thin ribbon of lube coming out between the 45 and the die body - both at the top and at the bottom. Now I know why. The RCBS die is 0.008" too small. I need to find some 0.003 or 0.004 tape to put on the die.

Thanks, donMountain.

[farmbif]

I think this is one place where RCBS quality control is lacking, I have some that work perfect in my Lyman and a couple that just don't fit. and ive yet to file or grind on them to make them fit

[Bazoo]

I use a couple RCBS dies in my 450. I can't say they don't work okay but they don't fill the grooves as well as Lyman dies because Lyman dies have more holes.

[Mk42gunner]

I did the coin thing with my 450 until I realized the ram will push the die and ring in. It also holds the ring square so the threads will start without cross threading. To get the die out, I put a top punch between the stirrup and the push rod and lift up, after I loosen the nut of coarse.

I agree the ram is large enough to squarely (is that really a word?) push the die into place, but you do have to take out the top punch.

The last time I changed H&I dies, I didn't have a real top punch for the new boolits, so I planned to use the same old ¼" rod that I normally use on flat nosed boolits. Since it would only push on the inner section (part I ?) I just pulled a penny out of my pocket and it worked. Plus I didn't have any Allen wrenches handy.

Robert

[dale2242]

I have an RCBS lube/sizer.
I use both RCBS and Lyman dies without issue.

[Bent Ramrod]

One problem that may arise with the older Ideal sizing dies is the step inside them that actually scraped lead off the sides of the oversized boolit to bring it to size. Any misalignment of boolit in die would scrape one side and not the other.

When I find one (and they aren’t common anymore) I take these dies and spin them in a lathe with a dowel and fine sandpaper to turn the step into an approximation of the later taper on the Lyman O-ring dies, so the boolit will swage down to size rather than scrape.

I must say that I use whatever die is accessible in all my 45s and my one Lachmiller (pre-RCBS) lubrisizer. Only one RCBS die has failed to seat in one of the 45s. All the Lyman O-ring dies I’ve encountered have a groove below the O-ring groove to engage the set screw on the 45s. I tighten the set screw (with top punch down in the die entrance) just enough to keep the die from popping out when the boolit is ejected. I can sometimes see it rise and fall slightly in use, but this doesn’t seem to bother anything. I do sometimes damage an O-ring on seating or removing, and have to put on a new one, but unless this happens, they keep the lube from oozing out as well as the earlier “precision fit” solid dies.

A certain judiciousness is needed in the handling of the pressure wrench, but the worst day I’ve had with any lubrisizer oozing lube beats the best one I’ve had pan or dip lubing.

[rbuck351]

I put a fiber washer inside the hold down nut and pulled the o rings off all my sizer dies, rcbs, lyman and my homemade ones. It stopped any seepage around the top of the H die.

[Mark Daiute]

I got a sizing die without the rebate on the top for the set screw. Not realizing this, I tightened the set screw down, gently, mind you. My 45 is now cracked above the set screw. Maybe the fact that there was no rebate for the set screw caused the crack, maybe it didn't.