New rimfire round

[Traffer]

Here is a link to a folder of pictures of a 25 caliber nail gun charge round that I started to develop. The bullet is 223". The case is a 25 Caliber nail gun (just a touch bigger diameter than a 22WMR. Some old 22WMR chambers will accept these charges. And don't let it fool you...this little charge has MORE power than a 22lr. After looking at these pics. I see that one step of the process has been omitted. The little piece of wood with the charge in was put in a drill press (not running) with a pointed tool (like a dead center for a lathe) that I pushed down on to the very center of the crimp to open it enough to get the post of the bullet into. Then the bullet was forced into the opening. The pressure on the angle of the crimp forced it a bit closed ...crimping on to the post. I never tried them...I have a barrel that I needed to ream a chamber out to accept them then make a gun for the barrel.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/w2advszii...dFfQBpmna?dl=0

[303Guy]

Could one size a nail gun blank down to fit a 22lr chamber? Without setting it off that is.

[uscra112]

There are plenty of .22 caliber nailgun blanks. Commonly used with an adaptor to propel .32 rimfire rounds.

[uscra112]

Winchester really had to jump through hoops to get the 17 WSM to actually work. It also takes a much harder hit than a 22 rimfire to set it off.

For years I've wanted a 25 caliber straight wall, semi-rimmed centerfire.

The length of the 22 mag would be a good starting point. I'd like to see a 55 gr TC bullet at around 1750 fps. The TC bullet would work in a tube fed lever action.

It would sip powder and be very inexpensive to shoot and reload.

Make that for yourself by swaging down .22 Hornet brass. Somebody had a thread on it a while ago. Takes a very strong press and it leaves a fillet at the rim which has to be machined off. Trim to whatever length pleases you.

I've been sorely tempted. If I had a really good Stevens Marksman .25 caliber barrel, I would slip it into a Model 101, (centerfire version of the Marksman). Alas, I don't.

[perotter]

Been working on ideas for reinforcing rim fire cases. There is a guy that has patented a BUNCH of ideas for heavy brass rimfire. (none of which are feasible in my opinion) I have come up with a simple way that just might work though...would increase the pressure max to maybe 2200 to 2400psi with the same thickness and design of a 22lr case. With this in mind...rim fire could become a viable military round. Maybe a 25 caliber propelling a 60 grain bullet at 2000fps or more. It would take a lot of work to develop it...work with machinery that I do not have.
Let the criticism begin...

FWIW. Back in the day when full sized rifle cartridges were what we now normally call balloon-head(not correct but I'll go with it), some manufactures pressed a cup into the bottom part of the case above the primers so that they could take more pressure.

Obviously the cup would have to has holes/hole in it for the primer flame and primer particles. The only thing I can think of that might be a problem is increased hang time.

[Mk42gunner]

Make that for yourself by swaging down .22 Hornet brass. Somebody had a thread on it a while ago. Takes a very strong press and it leaves a fillet at the rim which has to be machined off. Trim to whatever length pleases you.

I've been sorely tempted. If I had a really good Stevens Marksman .25 caliber barrel, I would slip it into a Model 101, (centerfire version of the Marksman). Alas, I don't.

I've been looking for a .22/.25/.32 cal Marksman barrel for just such a project. Alas they are hard to find in decent shape.

Robert

[Traffer]

FWIW. Back in the day when full sized rifle cartridges were what we now normally call balloon-head(not correct but I'll go with it), some manufactures pressed a cup into the bottom part of the case above the primers so that they could take more pressure.

Obviously the cup would have to has holes/hole in it for the primer flame and primer particles. The only thing I can think of that might be a problem is increased hang time.

My idea was to make a disk of Stainless Steel or other strong but thin steel. with a hole in the middle and the outside diameter a bit bigger than the inside wall of the 22lr (.209") so make it .211" or so.
Force the disk to a dish shape with a tool dished on the end with the OD of .208". Have the tool pull the disk into the dish of the tool with a little retractable button that can be released from the top of the tool. Then the dished disk of SS could be lowered into the case down to the very top of the rim. The button disengaged, releasing the disk...The disk would try to return to it's former diameter of .211" forcing itself into the sides of the case.
This would allow a pin hole (with maybe the addition of slits like leaves of a shutter) to release the primer gas into the powder igniting it. The larger pressure of the ignited powder gas would force the disk back down.
The disk itself would form an extra barrier to the pressure entering the head of the case.
I have found in reloading the 22lr that the head is the weak part by far....this would increase the effective pressure of the round without having to modify any tooling for the cases or make the cases thicker.
Just a theory...Lots of potential bugs but it is something I wish I could do the testing on.

[Traffer]

There are plenty of .22 caliber nailgun blanks. Commonly used with an adaptor to propel .32 rimfire rounds.

Yes 22 Caliber is the most popular. People also load them single shot placing a pellet or 22cal ball in then the charge. I guess it works okay. I bought these 25 Caliber ones when a guy was selling them for $25? for five thousand.

[rbuck351]

I bought a case of the 25cal nail gun blanks shortly after traffer started playing with them. I made a 256win case out of steel with a hole drilled clear through that fit the 25cal blank. I found a six cav lee mold on their site for a 25cal 52 gr bullet for the 25acp that had been made wrong and was cut at .258. I haven't checked vel but they shoot well from my tc in 256Win and seem to have fair vel.

[Traffer]

I bought a case of the 25cal nail gun blanks shortly after traffer started playing with them. I made a 256win case out of steel with a hole drilled clear through that fit the 25cal blank. I found a six cav lee mold on their site for a 25cal 52 gr bullet for the 25acp that had been made wrong and was cut at .258. I haven't checked vel but they shoot well from my tc in 256Win and seem to have fair vel.

Which power level charges to you have? Black= most powerful, Brown then red

[uscra112]

I've been looking for a .22/.25/.32 cal Marksman barrel for just such a project. Alas they are hard to find in decent shape.

Robert

Unfortunately for us, the Marksman neatly coincided with the era of corrosive priming. I bought a .25 ACP liner from TJ's in the time before I learned that the story of the .25 Stevens bullet diameter being .251 is hogwash. Too late to return it.

I've tried the Green and Brown levels of .27 caliber nailgun blanks. I would not go any higher. The ones I have have the same trouble as the .17 WSM. Too hard for the wimpy hammer blow of the Favorite to fire. I find them hateful to load in my Model 44; they slip behind the extractor too easily. I even made a special tool. Doesn't help.

Got involved in an on-line liquidation auction last night. Small hunting/fishing store near me went OOB. Meant to buy one or two more boxes of .17 WSM to modify. Wound up with five. At too high a price too.

[Mk42gunner]

Yeah, corrosive priming didn't matter so much when used with BP. The fouling could be seen and everyone knew the gun needed cleaning after use. Plus I think the BP fouling might have diluted the corrosive effects of the priming compound.

Then along came smokeless or even semi-smokeless powder and people thought "The gun isn't dirty, I don't need to clean it yet." Surprise.

Robert

[uscra112]

In the black powder era the primers were mercury fulminate. The BP residues captured the mercury. Enter smokeless powder and the mercury wasn't captured, it was driven into the brass, making it brittle and un-reloadable. The "solution" was worse than the disease; primer compounds with potassium chlorate in them didn't ruin the brass, they ruined your gun instead. Including all those old rifles that we find today with ruined bores.

We are soooo spoiled today.

[Chev. William]

My idea was to make a disk of Stainless Steel or other strong but thin steel. with a hole in the middle and the outside diameter a bit bigger than the inside wall of the 22lr (.209") so make it .211" or so.
Force the disk to a dish shape with a tool dished on the end with the OD of .208". Have the tool pull the disk into the dish of the tool with a little retractable button that can be released from the top of the tool. Then the dished disk of SS could be lowered into the case down to the very top of the rim. The button disengaged, releasing the disk...The disk would try to return to it's former diameter of .211" forcing itself into the sides of the case.
This would allow a pin hole (with maybe the addition of slits like leaves of a shutter) to release the primer gas into the powder igniting it. The larger pressure of the ignited powder gas would force the disk back down.
The disk itself would form an extra barrier to the pressure entering the head of the case.
I have found in reloading the 22lr that the head is the weak part by far....this would increase the effective pressure of the round without having to modify any tooling for the cases or make the cases thicker.
Just a theory...Lots of potential bugs but it is something I wish I could do the testing on.

Perhaps a .22 Gas Check cup would also work in your idea?
Chev/ William

[quail4jake]

Although, IMHO, developing new rimfire rounds is an exercise in futility...how great would it be to bring back the .32 and .38 RF for really great reproduction leverguns? And, of course the ammo would be reasonable and always well supplied in any LGS...yeah...I can just see it in the purple haze of morpheus, right in the same place where primers are available and feed bags full of smokeless powder just waiting for us. That same place where elections are honest; the untold world from whose bourne no traveler returns...

[uscra112]

A .25 Stevens HV is entirely do-able. See my post #50. Case tooling already exists. All it would take is a selling job on one of the .17 WSM producers, and ditto to talk a modern maker of .22 hunting rifles into barrelling and chambering for the .25.

[Traffer]

A .25 Stevens HV is entirely do-able. See my post #50. Case tooling already exists. All it would take is a selling job on one of the .17 WSM producers, and ditto to talk a modern maker of .22 hunting rifles into barrelling and chambering for the .25.

It would be the most popular new round in a hundred years.

[uscra112]

So how do we go about finding a contact in one of those ammo companies? Just calling the receptionist won't do it.

[uscra112]

If I had a really good Stevens Marksman .25 caliber barrel, I would slip it into a Model 101, (centerfire version of the Marksman). Alas, I don't.

Dragged my best .25 RF Marksman and a Model 101 down from the attic today. Alas, the Marksman shank is the same length but smaller than the 101's smoothbore barrel, so it's not going to be a drop-in. Thinking now of sleeving the Marksman barrel up to fit.**

And just for jollies a few nights ago I reworked a few .22 Hornet cases down to .25 RF dimensions. Easy. Used a .25ACP sizer and the same expanders I've been using for the .17 WSM conversion, in an RCBS Junior press. The fillet was cleaned up and the rim thinned with files, using an old and partially disabled bench lathe. Could just as easily be done using a drill press.

This project will definitely be pursued when the weather moderates. (The barrel-reworking lathe is in an unheated space. Brrrr.)

**DOPE SLAP! The entire barrel sleeve/link/lever/extractor assembly will interchange!
I now have a centerfire .25 Stevens "Marksman". Fires a small pistol primer.

The bore of the .25 barrel ain't great, but with cleaning I pronounce it shootable.

[Mk42gunner]

Good to know I can't just get a barrel. If worst comes to worst, the whole sleeve or housing doesn't look that hard to reproduce as a one of.

What about just using .25 ACP cases for a short loading in the CF .25 trials?

Robert