Buckshot hardness

[Ricky Bobby]

I’m sorry if I’m asking a question that’s been beat to death, but what do y’all recommend for hardness when casting buckshot? I’ve got some melted down wheel weights (not sure if they’re clip on or stick on) that I was thinking of doing in a 5 to 1 ratio with linotype. The calculator I’m using said that should give me just over 4% antimony and a bhn of around 12.5. Do y’all recommend harder or softer than that?

[megasupermagnum]

The harder the better. I water drop all buckshot, and there is no reason not to. You could oven heat treat them for slightly more hardness, but gains would be minimal. Straight clip on wheel weights is an ideal alloy, nothing more is needed. Water dropped they are close to 25 BHN, and oven HT at maximum temperature ends up close to 30 BHN. Adding Linotype will not make them much harder, but may make them brittle.

[Ricky Bobby]

The harder the better. I water drop all buckshot, and there is no reason not to. You could oven heat treat them for slightly more hardness, but gains would be minimal. Straight clip on wheel weights is an ideal alloy, nothing more is needed. Water dropped they are close to 25 BHN, and oven HT at maximum temperature ends up close to 30 BHN. Adding Linotype will not make them much harder, but may make them brittle.

So, another noob question. At 25 bhn, how well does that work when shooting a live target (mainly thinking hogs to do my part for society in general)? I’m used to shooting deer and hogs with a rifle and factory ammo that has pretty good expansion. Will there be any expansion with pellets that hard, or does it really matter since there will be more holes?

[Blood Trail]

I like mine 12-18 range.


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[Hogtamer]

Killed about 25 hogs the last couple of years with#1 and 00 loads. Lots of pics if you wanna search and here are links.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...pretty+in+pink

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hot-PERFECTION!

[centershot]

Ricky-Bobby,
I use a 50/50 mix of Linotype and pure lead for my buckshot pellets, that yields 6% antimony. I water drop from the mould and then tumble in my vibratory tumbler overnight to round them up. That gives somewhere around 20-24 Bhn.

If you can get the same components, those links posted by Hogtamer have great buckshot loads!

[Ricky Bobby]

Killed about 25 hogs the last couple of years with#1 and 00 loads. Lots of pics if you wanna search and here are links.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...pretty+in+pink

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hot-PERFECTION!

Hogtamer, that is pretty amazing. And it looks like it’s bad medicine on the hogs too

[Ricky Bobby]

Thanks everyone for the information. I think I’m going to go the quenched wheel weight route. The weights I have were already melted into 25 lb ingots, so I really don’t know if they’re clip on or stick on. What can I expect for hardness if they’re stick on and I quench them?

[Cap'n Morgan]

So, another noob question. At 25 bhn, how well does that work when shooting a live target (mainly thinking hogs to do my part for society in general)? I’m used to shooting deer and hogs with a rifle and factory ammo that has pretty good expansion. Will there be any expansion with pellets that hard, or does it really matter since there will be more holes?

I strongly doubt you'll see any expansion whatsoever - even with pure lead, unless bone is hit. I've never used buckshot, but I shot a couple of roe deer using lead shot size B (0.17") and most of the shot stayed inside the deer next to the skin on the far side. Still perfectly round.

[centershot]

Thanks everyone for the information. I think I’m going to go the quenched wheel weight route. The weights I have were already melted into 25 lb ingots, so I really don’t know if they’re clip on or stick on. What can I expect for hardness if they’re stick on and I quench them?

The higher the percentage of stick-on's, the lower the BHN. Clip-on's run around BHN 10, give or take, so a half and half mix drops the BHN to around 8, air-cooled. IIRC, water-dropped COWW hardens to BHN 15-16. I'm guessing that a 50/50 mix would be BHN 12 if water-dropped. Remember, it's the antimony (and to some degree the arsenic) that acts to harden the alloy when water-dropping. Stick-on's have neither.

[Hogtamer]

The reason for hard shot is that it keeps pellets from deforming up the barrel, creating flat spots. Factory00 is not loaded in a wad, 3 in a stack with maybe a bit of buffer - a recipe for easy loading but poor pattern. A 2-stack in appropriate sized wad and fewer pellets produces a much tighter pattern and better penetration.

[Petander]

The reason for hard shot is that it keeps pellets from deforming up the barrel

This applies to all shot sizes. Where I live, trap/skeet ammo is cheaper to buy than to reload. Better ammo with more antimony gives better scores because it is harder and patterns better, not because the pellet hardness somehow breaks claybirds better.

My limited buckshot casting / reloading experience has shown the same results, surprisingly good with 20 gauge in fact. Hard shot is good because it's all about pattern anyway.

[GregLaROCHE]

Anyone ever tried buck and ball on hogs?

[W.R.Buchanan]

To add my .02,,, As far as hardness, I can see no difference in the holes in paper targets or splats on steel targets.

I cast virtually everything out of Regular Wheel Weights because I have alot of it. I can understand how being harder would deform less on the trip thru the barrel, and that should equate to tighter Patterns, but My A5's Buck Special Barrel patterns 000 buck at 5" at 25 yards and my Vang Comped M500's both do about 7" at 25 yards so I doubt there would be much more in the way of pattern gains with super hard lead.

I am open to opposing viewpoints ?

Randy

[Petander]

I don't know about "tighter" patterns but hard (hi antimony) , more expensive ammo it how the good trap shooters get and keep their scores up there. They say there is less stray shot.

I can get 20 out of 25 in a good day,no difference to me.

[farmbif]

I was always taught to save the soft lead for buckshot and black powder, that's just what I've always done.

[Petrol & Powder]

Because you are dealing with multiple projectiles as opposed to a single projectile, the wounding performance of the individual pellet takes a backseat to the density of the pattern. I'd rather have more hard pellets strike the target than fewer soft pellets strike the target.
As pointed out by prior posters, the purpose of harder shot is to reduce pellet deformation during firing and therefore producing tighter patterns. Less pellet deformation equals tighter patterns, which equals more pellets on target.

Aerodynamic forces act upon the pellets to open the pattern and deformed pellets will result in larger patterns. Therefore range plays a factor. Even severely deformed shot will have little effect on the size of the pattern if the range is short.

Factory loaded buck shot is often plated and buffered to help keep the shot round and the pattern tight. Waterfowl hunters using steel shot know that patterns with steel shot tend to be tighter simply because the steel shot doesn't deform at all (or very little).
Of course there are diminishing returns to these efforts to keep the pattern small. Eventually the range will reach a point where the aerodynamic forces open the pattern too much and/or the pellets lose too much energy; that the size of the pattern and the energy of individual pellets limit the effective range.

[Ricky Bobby]

Great information everyone, and it is much appreciated.
As far as load data for buckshot, I’m finding very little. I’ve seen a lot of good stuff on you tube, but everyone is quick to point out that it shouldnt be taken as load data. Where do you all find for data? I’ve got a couple of manuals from BPI, but they have very little information on reloading hulls and using wads that are still fairly easy to find.

[Blood Trail]

Great information everyone, and it is much appreciated.
As far as load data for buckshot, I’m finding very little. I’ve seen a lot of good stuff on you tube, but everyone is quick to point out that it shouldnt be taken as load data. Where do you all find for data? I’ve got a couple of manuals from BPI, but they have very little information on reloading hulls and using wads that are still fairly easy to find.

If loading buckshot in standard shotcups, use any lead shot load data matching the components you have


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[Ricky Bobby]

Perfect, thank you