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Thread: GI Bore Cleaner and corrosive ammo

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    GI Bore Cleaner and corrosive ammo

    I have quite a lot of corrosive ammo for my milsurp rifles.
    I have a number of cans of GI bore cleaner marked Spec RIXS-205 and RIXS-205 Rev1.
    Was this cleaner designed to clean guns after using corrosive ammo.
    Does the PO number indicate the year of manufacture.
    I know the bore cleaner issued during WWII was for corrosive ammo and if I could determine when it was manufactured that would be a clue.

  2. #2
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    That's a really good question for which I do not know the answer. I've used both the WW II vintage G.I. bore cleaner and the stuff made during the Viet Nam War, and it seems different to me. Certainly the smell is! The thing about corrosive ammo is that the corrosive priming salts can be easily dissolved and removed by using hot, soapy water (best) or any of several commercial water based cleaning solutions. Most cleaning solutions now days have a petroleum base. Following what I believe your line of thinking to be, it is not necessarily logical that after the military abandoned corrosive primers they would continue to use water based solutions, so I'd err on the side of caution and go with something other than current G.I. bore cleaner. Yes, usually you can figure out the date of manufacture of G.I. bore cleaner from the information/numbers on the can.

    DG

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    dale,

    Is your bore cleaner black in color and strong ammonia smelling? The Vietnam era stuff looked like 30 weight motor oil and was pleasant smelling. I had quarts of the WWII stuff back in the 1960s that saved my rifle bores. Now days I use hot, soapy water per the Old Army Manual.

    Adam

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    WW2 army bore cleaner is mostly water blended with soap or detergent and aqueous ammonia. The detergent or soap molecule is both hydrophilic and hydrophobic, which means it can combine with both oil and water. When you shake the can detergent molecules adhere to the water and oil together forming an emulsion of molecules that are not normally attracted to each other, that don't usually mix. A 50-50 mix of Murphy's Oil Soap and distilled water is an effective modern substitute. Avoid using tap water from municipal supplies that contain chlorine or other halogens.
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  5. #5
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	275813 Here’s 2 cans of WWII, one 43 dated the other 44.
    10-x

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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I still have some of the cartridge belt style sized cans for my WWll pile. I can assure you that a simple test will prove which you possess, very simple. Go into the next room from the Mrs. and open it and fan it around a little, if it gets a loud voice coming from other room shortly after opening you have the WWll stuff! Really not needed though IMHO, as stated above using good water and process will assure success. Bolts are easy, some gas guns can be a little more involved. The way I used to do it is a good wipe down of bolt and a bore push at range with the good water mixed with Windex, and then home to a good deep clean with warm water with a touch of Dawn (also having a compressed air source is a wonderful thing) then oiled. Always checking for days after and with no issues short or long term. Treat it like a front stuffer and all will be fine.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Ballistol mixed with water is a good corrosive primer solvent. Ballistol says as little as 10 percent Ballistol will work, but I use more Ballistol in my mix. Good for black powder guns too. I like to use straight Ballistol as the final wipe down in bores that have fired corrosive primers. So far, so good.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    I shoot a lot of surplus ammunition in my military rifles. After firing I spray windex
    glass cleaner down the bore from the breech end to clean out the salts and wipe
    with a dry patch, Then a patch soaked with Ed's Red bore cleaner, Let set for a few
    minutes, then follow with clean patchs till clean. Oil bore and your done. Never get
    any rust. Ed's red is equal parts ATF, Kerosene and Mineral Spirts. Works better
    then the military bore cleaner and don't smell as bad.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I've used commercial black powder solvent to get rid of the salts then standard bore cleaner, usually Hoppes#9. Clean again and oil a day or two later.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    I have read that in the Red Army and the British army the grunts were told that if no solvent was available urinating in the barrel was a field expedient.
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

    Will Geer as Bear Claw in "Jeramiah Johnson"

  11. #11
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    As a kid I shot a lot of corrosive 06 ammo and I used the WW2 cleaner. That ran out I used some of the newer GI bore cleaner. That did not work the same and I did get some mild pitting but about the same time my supply of corrosive ammo dried up.

    I had not shot any corrosive ammo since the 70's until I was given some this summer. I used Ballistol mixed with water and a little Sweets 7.62. It worked well.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  12. #12
    Boolit Bub

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    Web search "moose milk". I use it on the for-fun BP gun, and put some in a spray bottle for corrosive ammo. Cleans out the salts, and the Ballistol leaves some rust protection. I have a couple cans of the WWII era corrosive cleaner; whatever is in there smells like it should not come in contact with skin.

  13. #13
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    And then there is Hoppe's #9. See following article: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/07/col...#axzz6lqXyZJxD


    Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/07/col...#ixzz6lqYCavcd
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

    Col. Townsend Whelen Tells How Hoppe’s No. 9 Came to Be

    Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/07/col...#ixzz6lqYs0HSJ
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

    U.S.A. –-(Ammoland.com)- Col. Townsend Whelen was an iconic American rifleman, soldier, experimenter, and leader who lived through the introduction of smokeless powder and bolt action rifles. He wrote voluminously, including several books. He lived a long and useful life, born in 1877, and dying at the end of 1961, at the age of 88. His works live on today and are considered classics.

    While visiting my brother in Northern Wisconsin, I was perusing his collection of Gun Digests. Looking at early Gun Digests reminds me of how much things have changed, how much we have lost and gained in our right to keep and bear arms.

    In the 1960 Gun Digest, Col. Whelen, in one of the last articles he wrote, reminisced about the introduction of the Krag rifle and Hoppe’s No. 9 powder solvent.

    I had never seen the story about Hoppe’s before. I have been unable to find it on the Internet. As the small excerpt about Hoppe’s is well within fair use standards, I will reproduce it here, for the edification of future generations of shooters. The article recounts Col. Whelen’s experience with the Krag rifle from 1900 to 1912. The primers of the time were a stable and reliable mix of Potassium Chlorate, Antimony Sulfide powder, Sulfur powder, and ground glass. The main problem with these primers was they produced a highly corrosive residue that stayed in the bore. From the 1960 Gun Digest, Col. Townsend Whelen, in the article titled: Days of the Krag:

    Further experience showed that it was extremely difficult to really clean the bore. After cleaning it apparently thoroughly, within the next day or two “new” fouling would seemingly appear, and slight rusting had started. Captain Foulke thought this was due to the smokeless powder gasses being driven into the pores of the steel by the great heat and pressure, and that the subsequently “sweated out”. He had a friend named Frank Hoppe, who was a chemist, so he and Frank started to concoct, if they could, a suitable cleaning solution. The first formula tried they called “An American Rifleman’s Friend.” It contained some ammonia, would of itself cause rust of left too long in the bore – it was not very satisfactory. The ninth solution they tried proved fairly satisfactory. If the bore was cleaned with a brass wire-bristle brush dipped in the solution for several successive days after the firing it would remain in good condition. Thus was born the celebrated “Powder Solvent No. 9,” which is still used extensively, and with which we are all of us very familiar.

    Hoppe’s No. 9 dissolves the corrosive salts produced by the corrosive primers. Hot water will also dissolve the salts, but then the water has to be removed or it will also facilitate rust. If the water is hot enough, it will heat the barrel to the point the barrel will dry itself. Use of the proper solvent, such as the No. 9 power solvent, eliminates the requirement to use hot water, along with the inconvenience and mess.

    Most members of the Gun Culture can remember the sweet smell of Hoppe’s No. 9 Powder Solvent.

    Now we know how it came to be, and why.

    End of article.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master



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    The original #9 formula contained nitrobenzene. Hence the nitro solvent moniker. Nitrobenzene is carcinogen and has not been use in Hoppe's #9 since the later 80's or early 90's. I don't know if that effects how well it cleans salts but it did reduce the general cleaning ability.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    The old WWII corrosive ammo bore cleaner smells very strongly of creosote, thing hot summers and railroad tier or sleepers. I guarantee one good wiff and you would be sleeping with your pets outside. It's that strong. However by the mid 50's most corrosive ammo had been replaced with the non corrosive type. Be interesting what out Korean War Vets shot as far as corrosive ammo and what they had to clean their firearms. By the time Vietnam War started up most if not all the ammo was of the non corrosive ammo type. Their bore solvent looked like a mixture of water soluable oil,water and some other stuff. Only problem is that I don't know what the other stuff is. As a matter of fact what does today's combat vet carry in his or her ruck as a bore cleaning solvent.?. Frank

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Hot soapy water is cheap (free), effective, and omnipresent. Why dink around with commercial solvents for the chore of cleaning up after corrosive ammo? Check the bore the next day just to be sure you got it all.

    Anecdote: to clean muzzle loader musket, shotgun, and rifle barrels, I demount them from their stocks and take them and a cleaning rod with me into the hot shower. Sluice out the barrels at the same time I sluice myself. All the crud and corruption swirls away down the drain.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Scrounge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTANG View Post
    And then there is Hoppe's #9. See following article: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/07/col...#axzz6lqXyZJxD


    Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/07/col...#ixzz6lqYCavcd
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

    Col. Townsend Whelen Tells How Hoppe’s No. 9 Came to Be

    Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/07/col...#ixzz6lqYs0HSJ
    Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
    Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook

    U.S.A. –-(Ammoland.com)- Col. Townsend Whelen was an iconic American rifleman, soldier, experimenter, and leader who lived through the introduction of smokeless powder and bolt action rifles. He wrote voluminously, including several books. He lived a long and useful life, born in 1877, and dying at the end of 1961, at the age of 88. His works live on today and are considered classics.

    While visiting my brother in Northern Wisconsin, I was perusing his collection of Gun Digests. Looking at early Gun Digests reminds me of how much things have changed, how much we have lost and gained in our right to keep and bear arms.

    In the 1960 Gun Digest, Col. Whelen, in one of the last articles he wrote, reminisced about the introduction of the Krag rifle and Hoppe’s No. 9 powder solvent.

    I had never seen the story about Hoppe’s before. I have been unable to find it on the Internet. As the small excerpt about Hoppe’s is well within fair use standards, I will reproduce it here, for the edification of future generations of shooters. The article recounts Col. Whelen’s experience with the Krag rifle from 1900 to 1912. The primers of the time were a stable and reliable mix of Potassium Chlorate, Antimony Sulfide powder, Sulfur powder, and ground glass. The main problem with these primers was they produced a highly corrosive residue that stayed in the bore. From the 1960 Gun Digest, Col. Townsend Whelen, in the article titled: Days of the Krag:

    Further experience showed that it was extremely difficult to really clean the bore. After cleaning it apparently thoroughly, within the next day or two “new” fouling would seemingly appear, and slight rusting had started. Captain Foulke thought this was due to the smokeless powder gasses being driven into the pores of the steel by the great heat and pressure, and that the subsequently “sweated out”. He had a friend named Frank Hoppe, who was a chemist, so he and Frank started to concoct, if they could, a suitable cleaning solution. The first formula tried they called “An American Rifleman’s Friend.” It contained some ammonia, would of itself cause rust of left too long in the bore – it was not very satisfactory. The ninth solution they tried proved fairly satisfactory. If the bore was cleaned with a brass wire-bristle brush dipped in the solution for several successive days after the firing it would remain in good condition. Thus was born the celebrated “Powder Solvent No. 9,” which is still used extensively, and with which we are all of us very familiar.

    Hoppe’s No. 9 dissolves the corrosive salts produced by the corrosive primers. Hot water will also dissolve the salts, but then the water has to be removed or it will also facilitate rust. If the water is hot enough, it will heat the barrel to the point the barrel will dry itself. Use of the proper solvent, such as the No. 9 power solvent, eliminates the requirement to use hot water, along with the inconvenience and mess.

    Most members of the Gun Culture can remember the sweet smell of Hoppe’s No. 9 Powder Solvent.

    Now we know how it came to be, and why.

    End of article.
    I still think of Hoppe's #9 as the proper cologne for men. Not at all sure how my wife feels about that, but she likes her guns, too.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    A friend of mine was concerned when his daughter came of an age where the young men in her high school were becoming "interested". She was not permitted to "date" but was allowed to attend "mixers" which were well supervised. Her Mom took the situation well in hand and while getting her ready for the dance would not permit perfume, but instead applied a few drops of Hoppes on her hair band and scarf (it was a square dance).

    Mom & Dad explained that if she met a young man whom she liked, who recognized the Hoppe's, that she could invite him to Sunday dinner. This indeed occurred, and the couple kept in touch. The young man enlisted after 9/11 and she wrote him during his deployment, sprinkling his letters with a couple drops of Hoppe's. Upon his safe return they were later married. Today their son is a cadet at Virginia Tech hoping to find a young lady who recognizes the smell of Hoppe's. As his Mom would say, "I don't want you bringing home a girl who smells like a brothel."
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Outpost75, great story.
    Country folks know how to get it done.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Outpost75,

    I like a story with happy ending! LOL. I see a sermon in your post. If I get writer's cramp in future, I will use your text in this rural county. Everyone knows Hoppes #9. Many thanks.

    Be well.

    Adam

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check