.410 over pressure questions

[Powersgt]

I’ve jumped on the .410 ban wagon and got all set up to load 3”. I was able to get cheddite halls and BP stretch wads.

My trial load is:

3” Cheddite halls - new primed
BPI stretch wad
278+ grains of 71/2 chilled
H110 - 14.7+/- .01 (had two at 15 grains)
Folded crimp 6 pt

Fired two for affect and safety in the backyard and noticed primers where dark in the firing pin divot they don’t but appear to be pierced. Fired a 3” federal #4 and no obvious discoloration of the primer.

Any thoughts on powder charge? To hot, to cold?

Edit note: fired four more from a 12 gauge with a 18” chezel adapter; no issues seen at all. Good close range pattern, primer appears normal. The first rounds where fired in an encore pistol. Maybe an issue with pistol?

[rking22]

Cheddite primers are known to pierce easily. They eat up the bottom firing pins on Citories with sub 10,000 psi loads. If you shot a Rem/fed/win factory load the primer is less likely to pierce. If your load is a book load it’s fine.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Very interesting. I've been loading almost the same load except #7 nickel plated shot and 14.5 gr. H-110. Just haven't fired any yet. Also loaded some with Max 410 wad, same shot & powder charges.

DG

[Powersgt]

Cheddite primers are known to pierce easily. They eat up the bottom firing pins on Citories with sub 10,000 psi loads. If you shot a Rem/fed/win factory load the primer is less likely to pierce. If your load is a book load it’s fine.

Not exactly a book load, BP has a load with A410 and a fiocci load at 16-18 grains. I’ve emailed them with a request for a safe starting load but haven’t seen an answer yet. After a lot of reading I figure a load at 14-15 grains to be a good starting point; hopefully the Curmudgeon agrees. Funny thing is that it looks perfectly normal out of an H&R w/ adapter vs. the Encore pistol.

[Powersgt]

Very interesting. I've been loading almost the same load except #7 nickel plated shot and 14.5 gr. H-110. Just haven't fired any yet. Also loaded some with Max 410 wad, same shot & powder charges.

DG

I’d be really interested in your results; my plan is to load them with #5 or #6 for grouse and such.

I read your comments on the thread about 3” shells, I’ve set up an older PW375 which has good support but I experienced the some issues using an overshot card and the lip flowing out the side. I decided to add just a few grains more of shot to give a nice tight crimp. I also measured the shot as I do not have the correct bushing, the powder bushing I have drops a consistent 15/15.1 grains. I’ll probably get the correct dies from PW next time I order parts.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I don't know exactly why I got into the .410 thing-- just a new area to explore, I guess. And even before the current shortages it seemed like .410 ammo was expensive and not very plentiful. I'd guesstimate that in my lifetime I've probably not shot more than 5 boxes of them, all 7 1/2 shot. I am having fun learning, but like you, my exact loads aren't found in the manuals that I've got, and are based on a close study of the manuals and trying to draw some conclusions. I am well aware that only tested shotgun loads are considered safe, but there's hundreds, maybe thousands of loads and someone was the first to try them. I'll be using them in a like-new NEF that has a breech like a cannon. I'm really not anticipating any problems, and since you observed primer irregularities in one gun but not the other it is probably just has to do with the length of the firing pin and the fit to the firing pin hole, and nothing to be too concerned about.

The component shortages force a person to use what they have. I've got H-110 that I've used for .30 Carbine, and Alliant 2400 that I've used for .44 Mag., etc., but they show many loads for Lil' Gun and Alliant 410, neither of which is available. So I went with the H-110. I've hand weighed each powder and shot charge, and feel like they'll be safe loads as some published loads go a couple of grains higher. There are BPI published loads for Cheddite hulls and primers using H-110 for 1/2 and 5/8ths oz. of shot, and the only unknown factor is the BPI wads. I guess back before Lil' Gun was produced, 2400 was "the" .410 powder, and I've found some loads to try out with that also; but again, none using BPIs Stretch or Max 410 wads.

We took different paths on lengthening the shot column. You added shot, I added a very thin felt wad just over the powder. I never did use an overshot card on the fold crimps, just on the roll crimps. I used a ballpoint pen and wrote a tiny "7" in the center of each card which is visible in the middle of the ones I roll crimped, and is kind of neat.

One other thing-- BPI says that roll crimps usually have less chamber pressure than folded crimps, so I purchased and used one of their .410 roll tools. It is the one pin design, and the results look sort of smushy compared to the 12 ga. crimps I rolled a couple of years ago. They do look like they'll do the job quite well, just not as neat looking, so I think I'll order one of the tools with more pins shown in another thread. Last night I took the BPI tool out of the drill press and took a look at it under a strong light where I found that there were two tiny pieces of red plastic in the groove on either side of the pin, so that may have effected the results and is something to check periodically.

DG

[Powersgt]

I’ve fired a few now through three different guns, 15.1 does not flatten the primer at all; fairly dirty. The wad and barrel are all scooted up leading me to believe I’m not getting enough compression.

I have a eight pound keg of 2400, I’ll have to see if I can come up with a load for that.

Jeff

[wywindsor]

Go to BPI and buy his book. There are hundreds of .410 loads in it.

[Powersgt]

Go to BPI and buy his book. There are hundreds of .410 loads in it.

I have five of there manuals and three other brands as well for shotguns. Plus the entire internet.

Note: there is not as many loads in their manuals as you think.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My standard .410 2.5" load with 1/2 oz of #9 shot is 16.0 gr of H110.

This is the only load I have ever used and it seems to work just fine. I have also used the same load with a .410 Thug Slug and it worked just fine in my M6 Scout Survival Gun. That load in the M6 is well below the Federal .410 slugs I bought which run at 1775 fps!

Randy

[trapper9260]

I use 2400 in my 410 loads for 2 1/2" and 3" .I ever use it in the brass cases I fire form to shoot in the 410 no problems/

[wywindsor]

If the primer did not pierce there would be no blow back. Your firing pin may have been dirty. You will also get better results if you weigh all your loads by hand and not rely on a bar slide type reloader. Not sure of your loading process just how I do it.

[Powersgt]

If the primer did not pierce there would be no blow back. Your firing pin may have been dirty. You will also get better results if you weigh all your loads by hand and not rely on a bar slide type reloader. Not sure of your loading process just how I do it.

Yes, I thought similar and actually only using the press for the crimp. The primers are not compressed or very slight. The gun shoots factory loads of all types with out issues so I’m leaning towards soft primer/small diameter firing pin theory at this moment.

I have tried a load of 12.5 grains of 2400 with similar results. It fires a little cleaner but the encore pistol still pierced the primers and a regular single shot shotgun does not. The attached picture shows one out of a shotgun. I failed to get a picture of the ruptured primers.

[turtlezx]

i would back off powder to 13 or 14 grains of 110 still plenty of power