Electrical Question

[jonp]

Just the CHEAP ones form the big box stores. Menards carries 10 packs of Pass and Seymour high quality outlets, same ones my dad used for wiring houses when he was an electrician! Heck same model number still after 30 years! They cost more and the pile of them is usually dusty, I talked the store manager into a discount to move 3 boxes of them off his shelf when I was redoing the house. Wnt back for 10 more for the garage 4 years ago and that pile looked the same still LOL everyone was buying the 50 cent ones, these run $2-3 each...

Correction noted MaryB and that was what I meant. The .85 cent ones

[ascast]

good read-entertaining at times - I think your problem is Aluminum wiring. It has been a life threatening issue since they started using it back in the 50-60's. Aside from getting brittle over time, it is susceptible to galvanic corrosion ( or dis-similar metals rust), like steel nails on alum roofing or versa visa. It burned up a lot of house trailers, then houses. Then they issued special connectors to go from the Alum wire to the CB panel, or whatever. And cheap guys, or dip ****s , did not use them. Hard to prove whats what from a big pile of ash. Most stuff is "grand fathered" past code requirements, unless known to fail every time. The work around is to change CB and outlet boxes as needed or every 20 years. This forces you to examine/reconnect all the wire ends and fix any issues. It sounds like your garage wire is undersized or weak breaker. I would fix that or run new copper just to eliminate the annoyance. Let us know how you make out. I am not nor have ever been an electrician, aside from some work as a refrigeration guy, some time carpenter, contractor, took classesd at school, my dad was a fire chief for about 20 years and I got the skinny on a lot of fires back in the day. I also have eaten to many doughnutz.

[ascast]

Total rewiring job - two story house - was off the cuff estimated to between $40,000 and $50,000. Not that I wouldn't want to do it, but the money isn't there. If I were in my 30's or 40's maybe, but we simply don't have the time left to invest in that.

How big was that house? Slab on grade or crawl space / basement? What kind of shooting ranges you got close by? under 1 hour drive? Can you cook? Must work be done by Licensed Electrician or home owner with inspection at the end? Got room for a camping tent? A copper upgrade would certainly be reflected in a future sale price. How many square feet? As expensive as copper is, labor will be about 80% or more of the cost.

[Mal Paso]

I was looking at a house to buy 25 years ago in Pacific Grove. PG&E the local utility had cut power, physically removed the wires, unusual. I found the meter. It was on a wall inside the house but visible through a window from the sidewalk. The disconnect was an open 2 pole knife switch and there were at least 4 screw in fuses in porcelain sockets. All the wiring connections, the meter and the switch were totally exposed but they were over 5 feet up the wall so kids couldn't grab anything, easily. I shudder to think of someone swinging a curtain rod carelessly. Hard to believe now but someone thought that was good enough to connect power to a hundred years ago.

Would like to have that meter. No socket, it was bolted to the wall with open connections.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Aluminum wire also "creeps" i.e. on the screwed in connections the wire's metal moves out from yhe pressure, so you have to re-tighten it on a regular schedule. I looked at buying one house but as it had Al wire, passed. House fires just don't sound like ANY fun.

Rewired a few houses, and helped a blind friend fix some wiring (acted as her eyes and advisor.) Fun, tho I prefer working with lower voltages more

[Rcmaveric]

I definitely prefer getting hit by 12 VDC or 24Vdc over 115 VAC at 400HZ (aircraft operating voltages at about 90/180 KVA).

Houses run around 110 VAC at 60HZ and I dont know the KVA.

Last time I got hit by house wiring I just took a nap felt fine otherwise (swear I had an out of body experience though and funny story. I was a kid with 2 nails and light socket. I was only 9. Destined to be an electeician). Last time I got hit by the aircraft I woke up feeling like I went through a meat grinder. Took a few weeks to feel normal.

Work has a cow when you get hit. Has to do with power we work with and frequency. Its can nock the heart out of rhythm enough to be a problem but hard to detect. Atleast thats what they say.

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[Wayne Smith]

How big was that house? Slab on grade or crawl space / basement? What kind of shooting ranges you got close by? under 1 hour drive? Can you cook? Must work be done by Licensed Electrician or home owner with inspection at the end? Got room for a camping tent? A copper upgrade would certainly be reflected in a future sale price. How many square feet? As expensive as copper is, labor will be about 80% or more of the cost.

On a crawl with no basement - around here you dig three to five feet deep and have a swimming pool! FWIW range is 45 min south but weekday membership is $750/year.

[MaryB]

I've worked in places that had those old concentric services and was always thankful that my company never had them. The main problem was that the insulation on the wire was rubber (some said it was live rubber) and the sunlight eats it up. The neutral is stranded wire thats wrapped around the outside of the cable jacket. Basically a fault waiting to happen. Service men in those areas got lots of overtime with blinking lights and partial power. Did I mention that I was thankful that my company never had that stuff???

That is newer LOL I had 3 separate wires! Ran parallel to the house. Cloth insulation... circa 1953 when the transformer was installed. They replaced the transformer along with my service when they discovered it was filled with PCB's... then they went through town and discovered ALL the transformers were that old. Power company spent 1 1/2 years upgrading stuff in town to stop the constant power outages. To many equipment caused outages means they have to refund $50 on that months bill. They found stuff that was so dangerous it should have started fires all over town.

[MaryB]

I definitely prefer getting hit by 12 VDC or 24Vdc over 115 VAC at 400HZ (aircraft operating voltages at about 90/180 KVA).

Houses run around 110 VAC at 60HZ and I dont know the KVA.

Last time I got hit by house wiring I just took a nap felt fine otherwise (swear I had an out of body experience though and funny story. I was a kid with 2 nails and light socket. I was only 9. Destined to be an electeician). Last time I got hit by the aircraft I woke up feeling like I went through a meat grinder. Took a few weeks to feel normal.

Work has a cow when you get hit. Has to do with power we work with and frequency. Its can nock the heart out of rhythm enough to be a problem but hard to detect. Atleast thats what they say.

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I repaired electronics for a living. Had an older VCR with a metal chassis on the bench. Chassis was earth ground. I grabbed it to flip it over to time the gears on the bottom and laid one hand right on the fuse, the other on the chassis so across the heart zap. I got it halfway flipped then realized I was getting zapped. Finished flipping it, boss walked in as I was swearing... he asked what the heck was going on, I pointed at the fuse and said touch there and there with fingertips on the same hand, he gets zapped starts swearing at me then I said now do it hand to hand across the chest... my chest muscles hurt for a week! I was so used to being zapped it took me awhile for it to register...

[MT Gianni]

New electrical codes specify not just GFi circuits but Arc fault as well. The $5 breaker has turned in to a $45 breaker. I would keep what works as long as it works and throw it out when it doesn't.

[Mr_Sheesh]

BTW, I've had bad luck with cheap GFI breakers, has anyone else had this happen?

Buy it, take it home. test it and it fails with the self-test button NOT causing it to pop open...

Not a good QC thing there...

[Rcmaveric]

WT* was going on, I pointed at the fuse and said touch there and there with fingertips on the same hand, he gets zapped starts swearing at me then I said now do it hand to hand across the chest... my chest muscles hurt for a week! I was so used to being zapped it took me awhile for it to register...

We have Mega Ohm meters to test for insulation break down or high resistance shorts on wiring and cables. The old ones have a hand crank that you spun to charge the capacitors. The knew ones use a 9v battery. It discharges a hefty DC pulse than you can change. We used to con the new guys or non electrical guys into holding the leads by offering to measure their resistance. It would then hit them like a freak train when you hit the test button. Felt like a tazzer.

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[Mal Paso]

BTW, I've had bad luck with cheap GFI breakers, has anyone else had this happen?

Buy it, take it home. test it and it fails with the self-test button NOT causing it to pop open...

Not a good QC thing there...

Some companies build the cheapest **** to sell to housing tracts. It has been this way all my life so it's second nature like not sticking fingers into fan blades. Square D QO series and Semans are good quality as well as some independent companies. Most of the rest is garbage.

Like Mary said, stick to the good stuff like P&S.

There should be finger guards in the store in front of some of those breakers. Semans and Square D Homeline fit a lot of other panels. It's not legal to use another manufacture's breaker but neither is home made cheese.

[Wayne Smith]

It's done. Finished yesterday. Very competent electrician who likes guns too. He and an assistant finished the job the second day.

[10x]

Nobody replaces a box after 20 years without a good reason like major rust. Lugs can be replaced and the box is often integrated with the building.

Aluminum wiring is a concern. The little I've done tells me the connections need to be checked every few years and too much bending causes fatigue failure (breaks) rather than work hardening like copper.

There is an antioxidant paste that is used to connect aluminium wiring to copper and other metals.
This can eliminate potential problems at connections and in breaker boxes.
Electrical boxes do not "wear out", the only problem is that as folks add circuits, there are not enough spaces for new circuits. Some brands of electrical boxes have breakers available designed to double the number of circuits available in an existing box, far less expensive than replacing the whole box with a larger box for more circuits.