powders safe for downloading

[farmbif]

was just reading through the thread about using 5 grains of pistol powder, red dot, 700x, etc. in 30-30

and got me wondering if there might be a list compiled of powders that are safe for use in downloading.
or a list of powders that should not be downloaded.

[Hick]

Wow-- good question. I would think such a thing should exist but I have not found it. However, since you mention pistol powder as well, I'll tell you how I approach the problem. I use modern loading manuals and look for starting loads for slower powders to see how low in velocity I can go, then I look at the older Lyman Cast Bullet handbooks (3rd edition and fourth edition) for bullets of similar weight and see how high in velocity I can get. The Lyman handbooks focus more on the low end stuff (velocity-wise) and include loads with pistol powders, while the modern books focus more on rifle powders. Usually I can find that one or the other gives a powder and load that gets me in the range of velocity I am looking for. I even use the Lyman data for bullets they don't list-- including low velocity jacketed bullets, by picking load data for a slightly heavier bullet and starting low then working up to where I want to be-- without going over the maximum load.

[JM7.7x58]

I don’t know about a list. But everything I have read says to stay away from rifle ball powders when downloading, as a general rule. They require a certain load density to burn correctly.

Case volume has a lot to do with load density. I can use a full case of H-414 (a ball powder) in the 30-30 with a 165gr cast bullet, velocity is acceptable for a cast load. I can’t do this in the 30-06. The case is just to large in volume. By the time you have enough powder to burn safely, the velocity is gonna be in the jacketed realm.

Most of the powders that we rely on for downloading are stick and flake powders.

JM

[dverna]

The Lyman cast book is a good resource. H4985 can be loaded down to 60% of loads listed that use it....see the Hodgdon site.

Those are the only safe resources I know of. Larry Gibson is one of the few with pressure measuring equipment, plus he knows what he is doing and I would trust his data. Outpost75 is another poster I trust.

There can be dangers in reduced loads so I would limit myself to the above. I have a good stock of appropriate reduced load powders but I realize others may be struggling right now.

When things get to normal, it would be wise to have at least one jug of Promo/Red Dot and Unique in your reserves. Those two powders cover a lot of bases and what I recommend for people prepping for SHTF. Most pistols; 12, 20, and 28 ga; and reduced, but useful loads, in neatly every rifle caliber are covered.

[P Flados]

For some insight into downloading, here is a link to a site that is a really good read. The site is focused on CAS, but it has a huge collection of real test data.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

From my general experience I have never heard of any real problems (other than unburned powder) downloading any double based powder with a burn rate of Unique or faster. One item of note is that the really fast powder tend to use small charges and metering variations can be a higher % variation with respect to the total charge. I (like many others) used and was happy with Red Dot for reduced loads, but the GMDR site recommends against it due to their concerns about the small charges and associated % variations.

Some strange behavior has been attributed to Blue Dot. However, the GMDR site seems to have been happy with it for downloading.

The ball powders just slower than Blue Dot are where I worry the most. H100/WW296 are the poster children for powders where low load densities are considered very risky.

Some other more recent powders in this range seem to have been developed with a focus on allowing lower load densities. As an example, I use Shooters World Heavy Pistol. They indicate that it is acceptable even with lower load densities.

Extruded powders like 4227 & 4198 do not seem to "act badly" when download. They just work very poorly in lower pressure loads with lots of unburned powder.

Go slower than the above, and I really do not remember reading much about either problems or successes.

[nelsonted1]

2400 rocks.at lower densities

[Winger Ed.]

I'm a big 13gr. RedDot "the load' fan in .30-06.
If the stars come together, I can get 1-ish" groups with it fairly often at 100 yards.

I haven't had a chance to develope & shoot RedDot in .30-30, with my cast 170RN; but from what I've read:
For the .30-30, I'd ease it on up to 7, maybe even almost 8 grains if you're shooting much past 50 yards.

[CoolHandMoss]

You'd need a really stable internet connection to download powder.

Oh wait...

[303Guy]

Someone had to say it.

[Stephen Cohen]

I have never had any luck with the H4895 that dverna meant to type, every caliber I have tried the 60 percent method in gave me hang fires or projectiles stuck in barrel. H4895 is a good powder for upper end loads but I will not try reduced loads with it again as there are better powders for that. Regards Stephen

[gbrown]

My go to is Unique. Years ago, like 23-24, I wanted mouse fart loads for my then, 4 year old grandson to shoot 06 and 30-30 rifles (me holding them, of course). My loading buddy told me to load 7-8 grains of Unique, but to make sure the powder was over the primer, by tapping the base of the shell. Worked well. When I started shooting 357 Herrett, this is also how I fireformed my cases.

[gbrown]

Just sniffed around and found this on Gun Digest. Haven't read it all. Wouldn't let me post the URL. Article is titled, "When less is more." Hope it helps.

[bangerjim]

You'd need a really stable internet connection to download powder.

Oh wait...

Every time I try do download powders, I get a blue computer failure screen and a puff of smoke out of the router! Mabe it would work if I did not use my Bosch 2HP woodworking router for an internet connection??????????? Time will tell.

banger

[jeepyj]

following

[RoyEllis]

Just sniffed around and found this on Gun Digest. Haven't read it all. Wouldn't let me post the URL. Article is titled, "When less is more." Hope it helps.

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/ammu...n-less-is-more
How's this?

[gumbo333]

I live in the country, I have a dish, which 'downloads' fairly slow. They all say to go slowly. By going slowly I have had good success with red dot, blue dot then unique. Not bad success with 700x, titegroup, hs7 and hp-38 in 45/70. Boolit size matters. .459 in 405's better than 275 or 300 gr so far. Use the same downloaded powders in 30/30. Not quite the groups that the 45/70 gets. In 30/30 with 2 different micro groove Marlins you can't hit the broad side of a barn with .309 boolits. .311's are 2 1/2" groups. OK. My Henry likes the .311's too in 165/ 170 gr. I 'download' slow, but little noise, no kick, no hot barrel. Glad I don't have cable.

[FergusonTO35]

H4198 and Reloder 7 have given me good results when downloaded. I have never taken them as far as 60% though. I use Reloder 7 .222 load data in my .223 bolt gun with excellent results.

[gbrown]

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/ammu...n-less-is-more
How's this?

Thank you.

[Winger Ed.]

got me wondering if there might be a list compiled of powders that are safe for use in downloading.
or a list of powders that should not be downloaded.

The only comprehensive thing I've seen on it is in the Lyman books with articles in the front end,
and the pages on each of the specific caliber.

But ya sort of need more than one edition.
Some list reduced loads with one powder, but different ones in are shown in another edition--- and both are still good info.

[jonp]

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/ammu...n-less-is-more
How's this?

Great read. Thanks for the link