Remington 97 primers

[metricmonkeywrench]

In a package lot buy I ended up with nearly 1k Rem 97 primers. In my minimal research the only difference (other than being out of production) is that the primers do not have the tissue covering over the spark outlet and there’s the warnings out there not to be used with ball powders in shotgun shells. No need to discuss or waste time on that as I’m not loading shotgun.

I have 2 inline muzzleloaders both with 209 plugs in them, an older CVA Buckhorn exclusively powered by Pyrodex RS and a new CVA Wolf using Blackhorn 209 powder. I’m fiddling with cast, sabot and belted bullets for range fun only.

My supply of 209 primers is dwindling (down to my last 50).

Any foreseen issues using the 97s to fire off the 2 powders?

[megasupermagnum]

I have never used 97 primers, but have used 57's. Both had an open hole, and the warning with ball powders was because the fine powder could get into that hole. I'm not certain what problem this would cause, and never tried it. In a muzzleloader, this would not be a worry, as your powder never comes in contact with the primer at all. A quick search does show 97 size primers are supposed to be 209 primer size. The size of 209 primers can very slightly, even today. Still, we are usually talking about them being .241" for american style 209's, compared to the larger European sizes, Cheddite being the largest at .245". My guess is muzzleloaders should have plenty of slop that fitment should be no problem. Maybe measure the OAL of the primer compared to the 209's you have been shooting just to be safe. I think worst case if they are shorter, is they don't ignite.

[William Yanda]

1k through a muzzle loader. That's a lot of range time.

[dondiego]

Are Rem. 97's smaller than 209's?

[blackriver]

Are Rem. 97's smaller than 209's?

They are slightly smaller. I have about 5000 if anyone is looking for some.

[rking22]

In the 70s I used lots of Rem 97 and they were physically interchangeable with Win209s. The 57 is notably smaller and fit specific Remington hulls, I still have 1000 of them, if anyone cares. Can’t see any reason to not use them in your inline, might check for accuracy changes.

[metricmonkeywrench]

So one test is worth a thousand guesses. Pulled out the calipers and did some measuring. Though a bit shorter in length the diameter below the flange is about the same. The 97’s have a bit more taper to the body, the open bolt Buckhorn may not like them but the break open Wolf shouldn't have any problems retaining them. The flash hole size is interesting though.

I guess all that’s left now is heading to the range and see what happens

[metricmonkeywrench]

Range day update, I took the CVA Wolf and headed to the range. Had a dual purpose, the primers and shooting my first Lee REAL bullets over 70g of BH209. Kicked off by blank firing a couple of each primers. Both sounded about the same by my ear.

Firing at the 50 yard line 3 shots of the CCI grouped to about an inch with the 2nd and 3rd shots hitting the same spot enlarging the hole. 97’s opened up a bit to about 1 3/4 though I may have shanked the 2nd shot as the 1st and 3rd were sharing the hole as well.

[rking22]

Key-holing? Bullet not stabilized and striking sideways? Dang REALs are pretty short, must be stripping the rifling.

[Edward]

Don"t forget the felt wad with the REAL ,it is as important as the lead /Ed

[Teddy (punchie)]

97 and CCI 157 were used in the old SP Rem casing. They fit differently, seams to me they are smaller.

after reading your rem box maybe it a 57 rem not the 97 .

[Vopie]

No, CCI 157, and Remington 57 primers were used in the old style "asbestos like" base wad SP hull. #97 Remington primers were their 209 size primer for the RXP, Blue Magic, etc. hulls.

[metricmonkeywrench]

Sorry, bad terminology they were not keyholing. the shots hit together expanding the hole. Nothing hit sideways, nice sharp perfect holes in the target.

May look into wads in the future but for now the REALS seem to be working as is. I’ll try to tighten up the groups at 50 then see what happens when I go to 100, I have plenty of primers apparently.

[rking22]

Ah, sounds good. Looks like you have a decent start and minute of deer already.