45acp 250 RNFP Data

[KYCaster]

The pic below is an extension cord I bought to hang Christmas decorations with. You can see why I'm so cranky. Anyway, I apologise for being such an ass last night. I'll try not to do it again.

Well, I see your problem...your cord is obviously made in China. If you'd buy American made products you'd get way fewer tags.

To tell the difference look for the tag that says "Fabrique au Canada" or "Huecho en Mexico".

Glad I could help out.

Jerry

[GunFun]

Same issue the 90286 drops 243 grain TC bullets. I ended up working up a load from 250 grain data using green dot.

I found that it started cycling reliably at 3 grains, was a good impact/ recoil match for 230 grain hardball standard stuff at 3.7. At anything above ~4.5 grains, I got poor powder burn, stench and erractic velocities, often very weak. This left a lot of powder residue, and un-burnt powder. Aside from lack of consistency, I think higher charge weights could be dangerous from a squib load type problem. I have noticed that green dot does well with light to moderate loads, but has burning issues as charge weights increase with shotgun shells too. IMO the load is good and safe up to around 4 grains, but I would not exceed that. 3.7 was goldilocks. I saw no pressure signs and would feel comfortable using 3.7 grains of green dot with a 243 grain bullet of this type in any .45 ACP. Obviously no one should take my word for it. Work your own loads up for safety, but at least I can give you my experiences and warn you of the dangers I found as charge weights increase.

[trickyasafox]

I've had good luck with a lee TC that drops pretty heavy with my alloy (245gr+/-) with 5.5 gr of unique loaded as long as my barrel will allow. YMMV, and it isn't in my published load books so proceed with caution

[robertbank]

4.1 gr of Bullseye gave me 783 fps out of my Norinco 1911. Worked ok under 250 gr RNFP Barnes bullet.

Bob

[GunFun]

Update question. While I stand by my previous post, I have opted to phase out green dot. I have enough left for a couple hundred more of these. Assuming I stick with this same bullet, I would like to not have to use any new powders. The good news is that 3 of the powders I like to use and want to keep on hand seem like a good fit. WSF, Red Dot, and bullseye. I prefer higher load density, and like to buy WSF in quantity since it is my favorite shotgun powder. Does anyone know of a source of data for 45 ACP and WSF? Bullet weight is 243 grains, but I'll take 245 or 250 grain RNFP data if you have it.

Links or published sources preferred. At this stage, I am more willing to work up by dead reckoning, but having a map is nice. Also saves me hard to come by range time.

[GunFun]

4.1 gr of Bullseye gave me 783 fps out of my Norinco 1911. Worked ok under 250 gr RNFP Barnes bullet.

Bob

Thanks, Bob. Any pressure signs, etc? Would you characterize this as standard, mild, or spicy?

[GunFun]

I've had good luck with a lee TC that drops pretty heavy with my alloy (245gr+/-) with 5.5 gr of unique loaded as long as my barrel will allow. YMMV, and it isn't in my published load books so proceed with caution

Good to know. I have a half can of this, but I don't use it much. It's good to have a frame of reference to see if I am out in crazy land with my estimated starting points.

[S.R.Custom]

WSF and Herco are virtually tied on the Burn rate chart, and I use Herco extensively in the .45 ACP (and other things). I use 7.3 grs of Herco under a 230 gr Speer Gold Dot for a 980 fps max load...

That said, I wouldn't use WSF in that role, tho. It's a ball powder, and if it's anything like 231, it doesn't work worth a **** when it gets cold. Which means you'll get a wide performance variation across a range of temperatures. I'd be inclined to give Red Dot a try with the heavier bullet.

[S.R.Custom]

Also... go here and do a search for WSF:
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...Handgun&Source

There's nothing listed for anything heavier than 230 grains, but it'll give you some clues.

[GunFun]

WSF and Herco are virtually tied on the Burn rate chart, and I use Herco extensively in the .45 ACP (and other things). I use 7.3 grs of Herco under a 230 gr Speer Gold Dot for a 980 fps max load...

That said, I wouldn't use WSF in that role, tho. It's a ball powder, and if it's anything like 231, it doesn't work worth a **** when it gets cold. Which means you'll get a wide performance variation across a range of temperatures. I'd be inclined to give Red Dot a try with the heavier bullet.

Thanks for the reply, however, an aspect of it doesn't make sense to me:
WSF and Red Dot are flattened ball powders. i.e. Flake. So is green dot, and I definitely see it being crappy in cold weather, and having a much narrower consistent working range than it's published data indicates. Hence me phasing it out.

If WSF is bad for being flattened ball, then why would red dot be a good alternative? Also, the CFE powders are fine ball powders, whose primary selling point is good metering, shortly followed by the fact that they are more temperature stable than the top competitors. CFE 223 is less temp sensative than Varget, which was king for a long time...

[jcren]

Running cfe with the lee 255 rf with great results. Worked up load to 950 in my hipoint carbine but it shoots very well in my pistol and recoil is mellower than expected. Havent chronographed in the pistol though.

[mattw]

I have shot 250 grain 45acp for years in both the 1911 and 625's using WSF. Now, I do not hot rod the loads since I do not want to kill my 1911's, but I use the 625's to work up new loads or loads with new bullets. I could not be happier with WSF in this case.

[Outpost75]

Speer No. 13 and later have .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim pressure tested data for Speer 250-grain lead SWC and 260-grain JHP in both .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim. Their loads are quite satisfactory in S&W Model 25 and M1911A1 hardball gun with stock springs.

[S.R.Custom]

...If WSF is bad for being flattened ball, then why would red dot be a good alternative? Also, the CFE powders are fine ball powders, whose primary selling point is good metering, shortly followed by the fact that they are more temperature stable than the top competitors. CFE 223 is less temp sensative than Varget, which was king for a long time...

I should've been more clear... My objection to WSF is the fact that it's a *Winchester* ball powder. To be fair, I've never used it. But I've used 296 and 680, and they are legendary for their resistance to being set alight. I've stuck bullets in barrels using 231 in cold weather. And in the 5.56, 748 is much more erratic in cold weather than H335. For all I know, WSF could be wonderful stuff, but my experience with the rest of the Winchester stable is such that I'm not inclined to fool with it. If a lot of guys were winning matches with it, I'd be inclined to try it. But you don't hear a lot about it in use with the .45, so I'm going to run with what I know works...

I've found the Hercules/Alliant Dot powders to be much more stable in cold weather. (Except Green Dot. I've not found it to be useful for anything at all, warm or cold.) Bullseye lights well. As does red Dot. Blue Dot lights well, and is a good powder, except with Plain Base Cast bullets because it burns so hot. My favorite, in less-than-magnum handgun loadings, is Herco. I find it to be the most flexible, it doesn't lead as much as Blue Dot, and it's slightly more accurate than Unique.

This winter I'm going to be doing a lot of work with +P heavy bullet loadings in the .45 ACP in both the 1911 and 625 platforms. The powders I'll be using will be Herco, AA7, and LongShot. The LongShot will be interesting because I don't know how it behaves below 32°. But accuracy work the past year with LongShot and heavy bullets in 10mm and 40 S&W has been encouraging. And the little work that I've done with LongShot and the 255 gr LFP in the .45 ACP has been surprisingly rewarding with respect to accuracy.

[ddixie884]

I'm very interested in this. I'm going to bring it back up to see if anyone has new info......

[Stuckcase]

9 grains of 800x and go from there. Measure case head expansion as you go. .480 will be your cut off.
Can’t beat 800x for full power ACP loads.
Key is case head support of the cartridge, slide weight, and absolutely a comp for the ++P stuff (AKA 45 Super) and above.

[smkummer]

Older Lyman books shows either 454190 or 454424 with 6 grains unique and the 455 colt dominion cases. I currently fire 454190 in my Colt New Service 455. The dominion 455 colt cases are about the same case length as 45 acp.

[Stuckcase]

My favorite load with either the 250 gr RNFP or the 255 SWC is 6 grains of IMR 800x and CCI primers. The 1911 with good chamber support can do much more, but moderate velocities will more than likely produce pass thrus with either of these bullets.