1911 Full length Guide Rod? Reasons to upgrade?

[VariableRecall]

My brother, GalvinGround, has been debating whether or not he should get a full length guide rod for his new RIA 1911FS. As far as I know the only difference it's going to make is to prevent the spring from potentially kinking. The RIA 1911FS has a parkerized finish, which makes the majority of the guide rods available not very fitting for the finish.

What exactly are the reasons to switch? Which kits have worked best for you?

[godzilla]

My experience has been with a GI Norinco and a Kimber Custom. Smoother to rack was the only advantage I could see or feel, both went bang just fine. My thoughts are put the money towards ammo.

[tazman]

Most of the experienced 1911 shooters I questioned about this said forget the full length rod. It can cause more problems than it solves.
You almost never hear of a recoil spring kinking and failing.

[GasGuzzler]

I have a RIA that came with the long guide rod. I changed all the nose parts to GI parts, closed cap, short rod. Why? I can rack it one-handed and it looks like a 1911 now. Yes, it's blued and has no rail. But my lever guns are blued with no scopes so...

Hey, I took the ambi off and replaced it with GI because although I am half left-handed, I won't need that giant safety on it. Yes, I left the skeleton trigger and hammer on it.

[DougGuy]

That's basically a GI 45 model 1911A1, it never needed a full length guide rod in 73 years of military service with MILLIONS of 1911A1 pistols. Let me ask the entirety of our members here, a few of which have been around since before Viet Nam, if anyone has ever pulled apart a 1911A1 and found the recoil spring kinked.

There are a boatload of 1911 "fixes" for problems that never existed until somebody a-hem "invented" them.

Beavertail hi rise grip safety. You will notice that the gun sits as low in the hand with a WWII era grip safety and a flanged hammer as it does with a Wilson beavretail and a Commander hammer.

Extended thumb safety, extended slide stop. Worls well in competition. For a carry gun or truck gun an extended safety is nothing more than an elongated handle to snag something and pull the safety off. And for the uninitiated (Like a certain Norfolk VA police officer that thought my extended thumb safety looked better "parked" down there with the extended magazine release with a live round in the chamber) I had to tell him several times there was a round in the chamber and he just took the safety OFF, he looked at me like Who The **** are YOU to instruct me on a firearm? And I told him "Officer, you are fixing to cause a negligent discharge PLEASE put the safety back on!" He looked at his partner and clicked the safety back where it was. These guys are much better off with the as-issued thumb safety and slide stop. At least the ones lucky enough or old enough to be trained on the 1911.

Extended mag well and mags with bumpers on them. Makes reloading faster and easier. a must have on a competition gun, and possible that it could save valuable time in a shoot or be shot situation outside of competition.

I could fill the rest of this page up with descriptions of add-ons for a 1911 but the bottom line is it worked PERFECTLY FINE for millions of our boys in uniform for many generations just like it was issued. I have owned and I will admit to my share of parts swapping the latest brilliantly engineered piece of kit onto my 1911s, but now I am almost back to exactly where mine would have been issued in WWII and it's flawless.

One thing you cannot do with a guide rod is cock and load the pistol with one hand using the end of the slide to push against a table edge,

[VariableRecall]

I could fill the rest of this page up with descriptions of add-ons for a 1911 but the bottom line is it worked PERFECTLY FINE for millions of our boys in uniform for many generations just like it was issued. I have owned and I will admit to my share of parts swapping the latest brilliantly engineered piece of kit onto my 1911s, but now I am almost back to exactly where mine would have been issued in WWII and it's flawless.

One thing you cannot do with a guide rod is cock and load the pistol with one hand using the end of the slide to push against a table edge,

I'd have to say it's certainly a fantastic piece. I don't see the guide rod as being any sort of a weak point. other than a single double feed (probably caused by an aftermarket magazine issue) the thing has ran flawlessly.

[country gent]

Several issues with the full length guide rods. some change the disassembly procedure slightly. some have a small angled boss to help push the barrel up tighter in the lugs they do make a pistol seem smother but also make it harder to do one hand drills. They may increase spring life some. My 3' kimber 1911 requires a accuratly bent paper clip to lock spring for disassembly.

[GasGuzzler]

One thing you cannot do with a guide rod is cock and load the pistol with one hand using the end of the slide to push against a table edge,

Or a rock, your back bumper on your truck, your boot heel, or another solid object. You made the point I made above better than me and now I'm making the point even better...

[nicholst55]

That's basically a GI 45 model 1911A1, it never needed a full length guide rod in 73 years of military service with MILLIONS of 1911A1 pistols. Let me ask the entirety of our members here, a few of which have been around since before Viet Nam, if anyone has ever pulled apart a 1911A1 and found the recoil spring kinked.

Actually, yes, I have and more than once. It was kinked by the operator when he reassembled the pistol. I am rather neutral towards FLGRs. I would not want one on a pistol that I carried on a daily basis, because I might not be able to disassemble it without tools in the unlikely event that the need arose. Same reason that I use slotted grip screws (as opposed to hex, torx, or whatever head screws). On a range toy, meh.

[Murphy]

I never noticed the full length guide rods coming about until the 1980's. To me, it was a competition gun add on to add just a tad more weight to the muzzle. ISPC match shooters all had them (faster recovery time between shots). Some of the full length guide rods were offered in tungsten. And yes, it does make the gun seem to cycle easier.

Simply stated, if the 1911 needed a full length guide rod? John Moses Browning would have put it on there to begin with.


Murphy

[DougGuy]

That's basically a GI 45 model 1911A1, it never needed a full length guide rod in 73 years of military service with MILLIONS of 1911A1 pistols. Let me ask the entirety of our members here, a few of which have been around since before Viet Nam, if anyone has ever pulled apart a 1911A1 and found the recoil spring kinked.

Actually, yes, I have and more than once. It was kinked by the operator when he reassembled the pistol. I am rather neutral towards FLGRs. I would not want one on a pistol that I carried on a daily basis, because I might not be able to disassemble it without tools in the unlikely event that the need arose. Same reason that I use slotted grip screws (as opposed to hex, torx, or whatever head screws). On a range toy, meh.

Ahh on operator reassembly. I see. My question was more angled at has anyone found a kinked recoil spring upon disassembly, a kink that might have happened when the gun was assembled (correctly) and running as designed.

I think one time on one of mine, that had a full length rod, I managed to coil bind it and it did cause one of the ends to poke out.

[StuBach]

I custom tuned a beat up Auto Ordinance 1911 several years ago and gave it all the “bells and whistles” cause I was somewhat new to gunsmith it at the time and this was a fun way to spend bonus checks from work when I was making them. SS Wilson FLGR replaced the standard original and gun locked up much tighter and cycled smoother after the trade out. That being said, I was doing a lot of work on the gun at the time so it wasn’t the only thing helping matters. Never seen the need to trade back and never had a reason to doubt it.

Ultimately, I think it ends up more an aesthetic thing than a function thing. If you like the way it looks with it (or want the extra weight for competition) than it’s worth doing. If your just asking is it necessary, the answer is now, don’t waste your money.

If your looking for weight in the front for competition than why not just add a compensator, my dads pin gun has a pretty decent size one and he’s been winning matches for years with it. Compensator doesn’t help much for the low pressure 45 but it sure adds the weight.

[samari46]

As issued 1943 Ithaca 1911A1 I left it as is except for installing a Colt 45 barrel. Original barrel is a High Standard which is correct for this pistol.
Semi custom Springfield armory ( not the gov't one) came with a tungsten full length guide rod and shot great so left that one alone. Frank

[Bazoo]

I don't see a need for a full length guide rod. The spring ain't going to kink. There is only a very short section that isn't in the plug or on the short guide rod. Personally I think a 1911 will digest more dirt and mud in A1 configuration. If combat conditions are a concern, keep it original.

If I rack the slide via off a table or whatever, I use the rear sight. Course if you got adjustable sights it'll break them.

[JimB..]

I have a FLGR in a couple 1911s and not in others. The benefits are not so great that I’d add them and the disadvantages are not so great that I’d remove them.

[JSnover]

There doesn't seem to be enough room inside the 1911 for the spring to kink (possible but not likely, IMO). I don't know where the FLGR idea came from, I just assumed someone worried about the spring deflecting far enough for the outside of the coils to wear on the inside of the slide or frame.

[Bigslug]

Full-length guide rods are the first thing I remove and throw away from any new gun that came with one.

A recoil spring is only going to get kinked through improper reassembly. If you think about how the parts sit when a stock GI gun is assembled, most of the spring is either contained in the front plug, or wrapped around the spring guide at the back. The middle is secured by the frame at the bottom and the barrel above, so what direction exactly is it going to kink in?

All they do is complicate disassembly and reassembly. On a super loosey-goosey worn out gun, there MAY be a slight accuracy enhancement, but you're likely to get more mileage out of looking for a snugger-fitting barrel bushing. Before you drink too much of the "it helps with accuracy" Kool Aid, note that Les Baer, makers of probably the most accurate match-tuned 1911's in existence, use the standard GI parts configuration.

[Dan Cash]

At present, there are 7 1911 pistols in my stable, none of which have a full length guide rod. All but two of them came with one but were quickly removed and tossed in the parts bin. The full length guide rod makes disassembly a pain and serves no demonstrated purpose when used with a gun having a conventional barrel. It is necessary on guns with no barrel bushing.

[KVO]

When I was at the USAMU the service pistol team guns were built with standard GI style guide rods, with the best guns capable of holding 1.5" at 50yd. In contrast the action shooting pistols all had full length guide rods as per the shooters' request. The consensus was that the FL guide rods felt smoother while cycling and improved target transition times. In the speed game any advantage real or imagined is worth it to those folks. Us mere mortals by and large aren't fast enough to tell the difference.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I probably have a dozen 1911-type pistols. Only two have full length guide rods. One came that way, and the other I installed for a reason now long forgotten. One is made to be just exactly the right length that with a little maneuvering the barrel bushing can be turned past it, and the pistol then disassembled as normal. It is solid, one piece. The second is actually made in two parts, with one half screwing into the other half. Both are a pain to disassemble/reassemble and I don't recommend them. I've never had a kinked recoil spring. I have replaced any recoil springs that seemed tired, and have a shock buffer in each pistol-- including the two with the one piece rods.

DG