Had a rather rude awakening today. The Winchester 231 that I bought at an estate sale a few years ago wasn't 231. It has big flakes, don't know what it is but I am not shooting any more of it.
Be very careful of opened cans of powder that you come across.
Saving a few dollars on used dies is one thing, powder is another.
Robert
Be glad you noticed it, and it wasn't a new powder for you.
If I get an open jug of powder, there are only about 2 people I would trust it from.
The rest is fertilizer.
"When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat." - Ronald Reagan
The older powder is probably worth more as empty cans on Ebay, than as powder, lol.
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I've burned a fair amount of garage or estate sale powder over the years -- you just take it a little cautiously and use a strong action gun and a chronograph and you pretty quick can tell if you have the powder that the label says. And if not and you have enough to be worthwhile, the same process with a mystery powder will pretty quick get it identified. For example your big flakes are not going to be any medium or slow burning rifle powder -- they'll be pistol powder. If one of the "dots" there will be the occasional colored flake, so if your powder is the slowest flake powder out there (blue dot) you'll have blue flakes. If no colored flakes it is probably Unique or Bullseye. Assume Bullseye, load up a starter load and fire in a Ruger (indestructible) revolver and the chronograph will tell you if it is Bullseye or Unique. No big deal.
Ball powders are trickier because you don't have much for visual ID characteristics. But you can identify it if you put your mind to it. Back before God invented affordable chronographs the "pour it out" advice was justified but not anymore.
Last edited by earlmck; 01-01-2021 at 03:36 AM.
Good post earlmck, but give yourself some credit, you're working off quite a bit of knowledge that many don't have.
If someone has the ability to, and trusts themself to identify mystery powder than you'll never hear them asking what to do on a forum. In the case that they do, the easiest and safest thing for all involved is just to tell them to dump it.
On the other hand, mk42gunner, when you said you're not shooting "anymore" of it, how much have you shot already?
It sounds like you have some type of shotgun/Pistol flake powder. It could be 700x, or Herco, or unique, or another one of these types of powders. Just use it up in rifle plinking loads. I’ve used bullseye in this type of load and had good results. I’d try 7 grains behind a 150 plain base in my 30-06.
A copy of Propellant Profiles and a study of the Powder chapter in Sharpe’s Complete Guide to Handloading, supplemented by knowledge of the appearance of the new powders I’ve used previously have always been sufficient background when I’ve bought used powders and partial cans at gun shows and estate sales.
I do work up loads with the “new” purchases if I’m at all unsure, comparing them with previous data.
About the only thing I won’t bother with is unknown powders in relabeled containers. The price would have to be a giveaway before I’d be interested.
There is no wrong answer about what to do with opened powder containers as long as an abundance of caution is used.
The OPs case where a flake powder is in place of 231 and the advice to use smaller doses in a large rifle case behind a cast boolit is sound for some handloaders
Fertilizing the lawn with opened cans is sound advice for many of us yas well.
One thing that is more difficult to tell is if some dunce dumped one powder in on top of another.
I was just gifted 5, 1# unopened cans of new school Unique. That’s an easy one.
The same neighbor also gave me 5 more one pounders of IMR 4198. Three are sealed, no problem but two are opened and barely used.
With extruded powder it’s pretty distinctive in shape and size of kernels but a similar powder could have been mixed in advertantly. The key word here is similar.
The powder came from a third person to my neighbor, then to me.
I am pondering that open 4198 but I am no where near fertilizing with it and larger case low pressure loads to start with is winning out over greener grass.
Three44s
Last edited by Three44s; 01-01-2021 at 11:30 AM.
Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207
“There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”
Any MORE of it???? You mean you have been shooting it?Originally Posted by Mk42gunner
NRA Benefactor.
I've bought more than my share of open cans of powder at Gun Shows and/or an Auction. It has to be priced, where I won't be sad if I have to dump it. I'm lucky as I have a large selection of powder in my magazine, to do a visual comparison...there is also some images to be found on the interwebs, but having the same powder in hand is much better than looking at a computer screen. I save previously used powder containers, and my common practice with a purchased open container, is to pour it out into a bowl for complete inspection, then repackage into a plastic powder container, as they are usually the vintage can's that I buy are metal or metal/paperboard...I prefer to store in plastic...properly relabeled obviously.
Also, if I am not 100% sure it's the same, I dump it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001
I guess this means that no one is interested in the 90+ pounds of mil-surplus 50 BMG powder that I was thinking about selling!memtb
I posted on another thread about 3/4 of an 8# jug of Scot 1250 I got at an estate sale a few years ago. Before doing anything, I researched it and got reloading data from a member here. I read several descriptions of its physical appearance, burn rate, etc. It all seemed to fit so I loaded light loads of 9mm and went to the range. It performed to the data. I then went to moderate loads, same thing. Went to my usual load range, about 80% max. All chronographed and seemed, recoil wise, right where they were supposed to be. I've loaded it in a variety of pistol caliber and all fit the data. You just gotta be careful and go slow. Research it all, start small. The pistol I used in 9mm was a Rock Island 1911, a solid pistol.
One of my father's favorite statements: "If I say a chicken dips snuff, look under his wing for the snuffbox" How I was raised, who I am.
Let me preface this by saying that I hadn't loaded any 231 for several years.
I recently came to be the new custodian of both a Colt Officer's Model Match and a S&W K-38 Model 14-4, so I was planning of loading some .38 Special wadcutters. I ran into problems with my old RCBS epander die not expanding the cases deeply enough for the WC Boolits. Luckily I only loaded 12 rounds, and only shot six.
During the course of waiting for the new M-die, I got to thinking about how the powder looked. And realized that something wasn't right.
To me, it looks like some Herco got dumped into the five pound can of 231. Not trusting my 40+ year old memory as to what Herco looks like, plus if it is a mixture, I am not going to use it for the planned handgun loads.
I may save it for testing for very light boolit loads in CF rifles, but I will label it as unknown powder at the very least.
Robert
No pre-owned gun powder for me. One of the few things I won’t purchase second hand.
In addition, you can look at the National Center for Forensic Science Powder database, which has pictures of different powders along with measurements of particle size and shape. This makes it possible for you to get list of likely candidates. Then you look up loading data for the fastest and slowest on the list and start low. I've done this before. As said above-- you have to be cautious. The national database is here: https://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sea...image_size=400
Hick: Iron sights!
Is there any lab that will analyze an unknown sample of powder???
I'm sure you could find one. But you would need a LOT of powder to make it worthwhile.
NRA Benefactor.
I know this topic comes up often. But i have my own related question that ive not seen discussed before...
How do you know a can has not been opened before? Every can ive ever used, the plastic paper seal will readhere and make a new seal when closed and left for some time. And feels pretty much exactly like an unopened can when i peel it open again.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
I’ve got some older tins of Norma powder. They have a metal seal underneath the screw on cap. It’s pretty obvious which cans have been opened and which are virgin. Similar with old Hogdon‘s tin/cardboard cans you can tell if the metal stopper has been pried off.
IMR and Winchester screw caps it’s anyone’s guess.
JM
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