My Gibbs is dead

[oldracer]

I am curious as to where the pictures were taken inside the barrel? On the one I have there is some erosion in the barrel at where the top of the powder charge would be at 40 grains of powder. Since I use 80 grains I am past that and found the original owner shot short range muzzle loading matches only out to 50 yards so that charge would work. I also found when I talked with him he was a smokeless long range shooter and cleaned this rifle like he did his 308s and 6mm guns which was not real good. He won all the matches he entered and got tired of the black powder shooting and moved to 3 gun competition for more of a challenge. Try shooting some patched round balls and check what the patches look like, if all torn then there is a problem otherwise it shouldn't matter.
John

[Saltner]

[Caswell Ranch]

Vegetable margarine would be your Crisco and is used a lot in muzzleloading

I'm sure others will make more comments on this, I don't see Crisco and Margarine to be the same and can't help but wonder if the use of the this type of substance as a lube 5 years ago set the stage for this problem. I have a Pedersoli RM Hawken .54 cal that has shot around 3,500 shots both patched ball and Minie with loads of 60 through 110 grains of Goex 3F, shoots better now than it did new, bore is crisp to the eye with a flashlight, I would not want to bore scope it for fear that it may look like yours and no longer shoot well

[Caswell Ranch]

Looks a lot like lead build up in some areas, have you cleaned with a lead remover cloth, fine steel wool, lead solvent. If lead smudges trap residue, rust pitting is shortly behind. Bore can also look clean as the lead polishes to look like a clean/clear barrel.
On bare bullet I use a little tin in the mix(bullet will still obturate) , or paper patch.

[swheeler]

Yah that looks used up to me, there is atleast one land that was messed up from the rifling process, new rifle or new barrel

[Tatume]

I don't see Crisco and Margarine to be the same and can't help but wonder if the use of the this type of substance as a lube 5 years ago set the stage for this problem.

Different countries have different names for things. In England they put "sauce" (ketchup) on french fries (chips). So if someone in Italy tells me that they call Crisco "margarine" I'm not surprised.

[Saltner]

It can not be dirty with lead, I have been using PP for a long time.
There is not only a land with the step, they are all climbed over the tool.

ACCIDENTI CHE SFORTUNA

[Caswell Ranch]

It can not be dirty with lead, I have been using PP for a long time.
There is not only a land with the step, they are all climbed over the tool.
ACCIDENTI CHE SFORTUNA

O.K. I can see barrel cut problem but why did this not show itself 5 years ago if this is the same rifle referenced in the 5 year old blog. Yes it is bad luck.

[jonp]

Vegetable margarine would be your Crisco and is used a lot in muzzleloading

Oh, hadn't thought of that. I guess?

[Caswell Ranch]

Different countries have different names for things. In England they put "sauce" (ketchup) on french fries (chips). So if someone in Italy tells me that they call Crisco "margarine" I'm not surprised.

I made my reply based on the statement below from the article,
Six shots with pure lead bullet 535 grains, lubed with 30% bees wax and 70% margarine butter, 60 grains of Swiss powder 2F, between the powder and the bullet a cardboard wad obtained from a beer coaster.

[jonp]

It can not be dirty with lead, I have been using PP for a long time.
There is not only a land with the step, they are all climbed over the tool.

ACCIDENTI CHE SFORTUNA

Yeah, that don't look good but that is not the cause of the rust/fouling stuff I think. How has it shot to this point?

[Tatume]

I made my reply based on the statement below from the article,
Six shots with pure lead bullet 535 grains, lubed with 30% bees wax and 70% margarine butter, 60 grains of Swiss powder 2F, between the powder and the bullet a cardboard wad obtained from a beer coaster.

Being from an Italian family, I say Saltner's English is remarkably good. I also appreciate that he explained a term that was causing confusion.

[Caswell Ranch]

Yeah, that don't look good but that is not the cause of the rust/fouling stuff I think. How has it shot to this point?

The post below is on this forum and looks like his gun was shooting well, also why I made comments I did above.

Congratulations, you'll have fun with that muzzleloader.
Here is a report on my experiences that you will still find in the forum.
https://blog.davide-pedersoli.com/de...i-gibbs-rifle/
Unfortunately my Gibbs is dead, the barrel didn't last long, I suspect the steel of these barrels is poor.

[cas]

And THAT'S why I won't buy a bore scope. All my rifles are fine!

[charlie b]

26lb of powder. 100gn per shot. 1,820 shots. I don't think it looks that bad. The machining 'problems' were there when new and it shot well for a long time.

I have no experience with shooting that many paper patched bullets. But, paper is abrasive, so not sure if it is part of the problem.

I'd still contact Pedersoli and see what they say.

[Teddy (punchie)]

First I'm fan of olive oil. After using different oils for cooking I use olive for most of my cooking. Now that the girls have and do help I use it on most of my sporting goods. It a food grade oil, safer for them to touch. I would heat it in an oven oil it and clean it with Steel Wool around a brass bore brush. Look at it again with your bore scope.

I know it took many many hours to clean one rifle, I clean for a buddy.

Something I thinking about lapping out a barrel. I'm working on way to do this to a 30 cal rifle. I'm thinking of casting a long bore casting and using valve grinding compound to impregnate the (of what would groves of the barrel) high parts of the casting with the compound and running it back and forth. Hoping to get the 308-309 to the 311 or 312 and reload the ammo see if I can tighten up the groups. This barrel is as rough one.

[indian joe]

Vegetable margarine would be your Crisco and is used a lot in muzzleloading

Nope - table margarine has got salt in it.

I would get at that barrel with a brass brush tight wrapped with steel wool - brasso at the least - maybe car cutting polish - some kind of light abrasive (valve grinding paste too much I reckon) - then finish it off with jewellers rouge - when you have it shaped up you will feel the difference in the way the brush travels in the bore - spend a couple hours on it then clean properly and go shoot.

[oldracer]

I would suggest several things. First buy some of what we call here in America "Chore Boys" a copper assembled kitchen scrubber and also buy some "Kroil" and use the scrubber to throughly scrub the barrel until patches that come out have NO discoloration on them. Take a look inside to see if anything is different. Then get several pure lead bullets, drill and tap the base for a cleaning rod. Put some Cloverleaf or similar valve lapping compound in the barrel, force the bullet in then attach the rod. Lap the barrel full length adding additional compound as necessary. Then throughly clean the barrel with Kroil as it dissolves the lapping compound making sure to get the patent breech cleaned out and also the fire channel.

Or you can just call Pedersoli and see if they will swap the barrel?
John

[Caswell Ranch]

I think he may be out of luck on a barrel swap, it is three/four (3/4) years past the warranty (I think they have a 2 year warranty).

[Saltner]

Nope - table margarine has got salt in it.

Normally margarine contains salt, but I found the one without! The metal of the barrel does not get along well with the salt