Typhoon F12 Sabot Slug Loads?

[longbow]

Go for the gusto Armilite and please post your results... good or bad.

[tomme boy]

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That fellow on Youtube shooting a Thompson Contender with a 12ga Barrel with a Scope from a Bench Rest was Shooting 1 Inch Groups, with those Russian Slugs at 50yds. Which means a 2 Inch Group at 100 yds, which means a 4 Inch Group at 200 yds, which means a 6 Inch Group at 300 yds. If you can just hit a 12 inch Plate at 300 yds you can kill a Deer. Practice practice practice.

LOL!!!!!!!!

If that was the way it is NONE of the guys here would not be pulling their hair out trying to get a shotgun to shoot well.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tomme: We are all grossly under informed, I thought you knew that?

Randy

[centershot]

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That fellow on Youtube shooting a Thompson Contender with a 12ga Barrel with a Scope from a Bench Rest was Shooting 1 Inch Groups, with those Russian Slugs at 50yds. Which means a 2 Inch Group at 100 yds, which means a 4 Inch Group at 200 yds, which means a 6 Inch Group at 300 yds. If you can just hit a 12 inch Plate at 300 yds you can kill a Deer. Practice practice practice.

If only that were true..........

[Armilite]

Go for the gusto Armilite and please post your results... good or bad.

========================================

That Mini Bal is way Heavier Grains than I want. I would just like a better Balistic Shape with a Slug something like that. There is one for the 20ga. I just showed that someone has done a Mini Ball in a 12 ga for those that don't think it's possible.

20ga Round.
https://www.tarhunt.com/20ga-schrifl...rrels-tarhunt/

[W.R.Buchanan]

You do realize that ammo is designed to produce those results in a "Tarhunt Rifle." They start at $3500. They do actually work but the cost of admission is prohibitive for most.

Go look around their website. Also You won't get that performances from any of their Lesser Solutions like barrels for 870's etc, or your Typhoon. Their ammo is designed for "their guns."

Randy

[Armilite]

ACCURATE MOLDS. 27 pages of Molds.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=27

Also, makes Custom Designed Molds.

[megasupermagnum]

Most of us have at least one slug mold from Accurate. I had three, but sold one. I'm not quite sure what you are looking for, you keep sending mixed signals. At first I thought you wanted flat shooting. Now you seem to want big and slow? I've done both.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Typhoon F12 Sabot Slug Loads, your post heading is very mis-leading and you sure are very good at beating around the Bush ! !
What loads do you have to offer with details and pictures of your bullet and Sabot, how many different powders are you testing those loads with, so we all can benefit from it.
What gun are you using for your tests and the barrel length and OD at the muzzle.

Thank you.
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[longbow]

I don't believe you will find a bore diameter slug with a high enough ballistic coefficient to make much difference to trajectory. That is, a slug of "reasonable" weight. Of course you can design a bullet of any size to be ballistically efficient but take a look at bullet designs with high ballistic coefficients... how many diameters long are they? What would they weigh if scaled up to 0.730" diameter? Even if you went with handgun bullet designs at the higher end of ballistic coefficients, the same design in 0.730" diameter would weigh well over 1000 grs.

For example, Greg Sappington designed a "bear stopper" 12 ga. bullet way back in 2008:

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/vie...32539&start=15

A picture of the mould is in post #3.

This bullet weighs 1143 grs. and he got just over 1000FPS at safe pressure. Not sure what the drop would be over 300 yards but let's say lots!

Now, try making a more streamlined shape and what will it weigh? 1500 grs.? 2000 grs.? It just isn't practical.

In my opinion (for what it is worth) a good design is the Accurate 73-740TN shown in your attachment. That is James Gates Tusker design for a 600 gr. HB slug that I sent to Tom to put in his catalogue... Tom doesn't do hollow base pins so the HB pin has to be subbed out. I have the drawing if anyone wants the pin dimensions. I think that is a practical design at reasonable weight. Even solid it would likely be around 700 grs.

If and when I get a rifled gun or if my rifled choke tube works out I will be buying both a Tusker design from Accurate and likely a Paradox design from CBE. Those are about a heavy a slug as I want.

https://www.castbulletengineering.co.../12-ga-shotgun

If you go with a streamlined shape with hollow base design to lower the weight it may help a bit but you'll run into other issues. Better to go sub bore sabot slug if you are looking for flat shooting. There are, or were anyway, sabots available for .50 cal. bullets and there are sub bore slugs like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsNX...el=centuryarms

BRI:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...ri-sabot-slugs

You could cast a longer more streamlined shape out of a less dense material like zinc or machine them out of copper or brass but it all gets pretty time consuming and impractical for most people.

I will be looking forward to some range reports with pictures of 300 yard groups once you get things sorted out. Keep us posted.

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

I went the zinc route and it looks like this...
477 gr at 1700 fps. Can do 150 yds, maybe 200. Actually got a .575 minie in a sabot on paper consistently at 200 yd but 12" group doesn't cut it. Uncle Dino will have news on sabots this spring....300 yds use a rifle. My .270 will do 1 1/2" at 300 yds.

[Hamish]

I went the zinc route and it looks like this...
477 gr at 1700 fps. Can do 150 yds, maybe 200. Actually got a .575 minie in a sabot on paper consistently at 200 yd but 12" group doesn't cut it. Uncle Dino will have news on sabots this spring....300 yds use a rifle. My .270 will do 1 1/2" at 300 yds.

I remember when you spoke of doing this. I can see this load being outstanding close range hog/bear medicine.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I remember when you spoke of doing this. I can see this load being outstanding close range hog/bear medicine.

I can see "most 12 ga slugs" being good "Close Range" medicine for just about anything. Once you get past about 125 yards it all starts going downhill rapidly. This is definitely a case of Diminishing Returns. The farther you go the harder it is to keep in the ball park. (Exponentially Harder!)

You are trying to make a Diesel Truck into a Ferrari. And Ferrari is smart enough let Lamborghini make the Diesel Trucks and just concentrate on making Ferraris.

Randy

[Armilite]

This is the 20ga Slug Shape I'm talking about, only for 12ga. The Soft Point could be an Option though.

[Armilite]

Most of us have at least one slug mold from Accurate. I had three, but sold one. I'm not quite sure what you are looking for, you keep sending mixed signals. At first I thought you wanted flat shooting. Now you seem to want big and slow? I've done both.

=======================

I have never said I want Big & Slow. I did say I want a Slug/Bullet in the 7/8oz (420gr) to 1oz (480gr) Range that can kill a Deer at 300 yds which you need 800 FT-lbs on Average. If you can kill a Deer at that range you can Kill just about any North American Animal, and most of the other Animals in other Countries in the World, including a Man! I have said, I want a more Ballistic Efficient Shaped Round to do that, something like that Mini Ball Shape! That .69 Cal Mini Ball was shot out of Smooth Bore Muskets at greater ranges than 350 yds in Wars. If you can't Think Out Side of the Box, you will always be in the Box of 25yds - 100yds Thinking. That Short 25yds - 100yds Range meets most of the people in the world's needs, especially since most People can't Shoot Good at even them Ranges.

Honestly, how many Hours have you tried to Work up a Round to get Accuracy at 125-150-200-250-300yds?

Now when it comes to Shotguns I have only Reloaded OO Buck and mainly #6, but at one time I did Load Trap Loads from when I started shooting Trap in 9th Grade. I have also reloaded probably 500,000+ Rifle & Pistol rounds since I started that in 7th grade with a couple of Gun Nuts (Boy Scout Master and a guy on my paper route) who both had over a 100 Guns in there Collection, which I introduced them to each other, who then took me to Gun Shows and Gun Shoots similar to Knob Creek 200+ other Shooters, so I got to shoot about every kind of Gun there was, so they put the Bug into me. Now I'll be 64 come March 1st. Also, I not only reloaded for myself, but also for a few friends also who bought their own materials. I have also Cast a lot of Bullets in all of these Years.

[Armilite]

Typhoon F12 Sabot Slug Loads, your post heading is very mis-leading and you sure are very good at beating around the Bush ! !
What loads do you have to offer with details and pictures of your bullet and Sabot, how many different powders are you testing those loads with, so we all can benefit from it.
What gun are you using for your tests and the barrel length and OD at the muzzle.

Thank you.
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

================================

Apparently, you don't READ these post, or you would know I'm just getting into finding a better round for my New Typhoon F12 to meet my wants. Does it really matter if you call it a Slug or Sabot Round? You're doing the same thing, only one is Lead and the other maybe Jacketed or Coated. I have also said, I'm looking at all options. Were talking about "DEER LOADS" for Long Range out to 300yds with an Effective 800 FT-LBS, were not putting a 22 Bullet, in a Plastic Sabot Case shoved into a 12ga Hull! That Mini Ball .69 Calibur was put in a 12ga WAD with the Base Cut Off!

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Armilite,
Please re- read your post heading " Typhoon F12 Sabot Slug Loads " your post heading is very mis-leading and you sure are very good at beating around the Bush ! !
What loads do you have to offer with details and pictures of your bullet and Sabot, how many different powders are you testing those loads with, so we all can benefit from it.
What gun are you using for your tests and the barrel length and OD at the muzzle.

Don't come here with a big heading, especially when you have nothing up your sleeves to offer us.
We are all Ham sandwich lovers, keep your Bologna to yourself.

Change your post heading to " Please, Looking for help loading "

Thank you.
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Armilite]

I don't believe you will find a bore diameter slug with a high enough ballistic coefficient to make much difference to trajectory. That is, a slug of "reasonable" weight. Of course you can design a bullet of any size to be ballistically efficient but take a look at bullet designs with high ballistic coefficients... how many diameters long are they? What would they weigh if scaled up to 0.730" diameter? Even if you went with handgun bullet designs at the higher end of ballistic coefficients, the same design in 0.730" diameter would weigh well over 1000 grs.

For example, Greg Sappington designed a "bear stopper" 12 ga. bullet way back in 2008:

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/vie...32539&start=15

A picture of the mould is in post #3.

This bullet weighs 1143 grs. and he got just over 1000FPS at safe pressure. Not sure what the drop would be over 300 yards but let's say lots!

Now, try making a more streamlined shape and what will it weigh? 1500 grs.? 2000 grs.? It just isn't practical.

In my opinion (for what it is worth) a good design is the Accurate 73-740TN shown in your attachment. That is James Gates Tusker design for a 600 gr. HB slug that I sent to Tom to put in his catalogue... Tom doesn't do hollow base pins so the HB pin has to be subbed out. I have the drawing if anyone wants the pin dimensions. I think that is a practical design at reasonable weight. Even solid it would likely be around 700 grs.

If and when I get a rifled gun or if my rifled choke tube works out I will be buying both a Tusker design from Accurate and likely a Paradox design from CBE. Those are about a heavy a slug as I want.

https://www.castbulletengineering.co.../12-ga-shotgun

If you go with a streamlined shape with hollow base design to lower the weight it may help a bit but you'll run into other issues. Better to go sub bore sabot slug if you are looking for flat shooting. There are, or were anyway, sabots available for .50 cal. bullets and there are sub bore slugs like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsNX...el=centuryarms

BRI:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...ri-sabot-slugs

You could cast a longer more streamlined shape out of a less dense material like zinc or machine them out of copper or brass but it all gets pretty time consuming and impractical for most people.

I will be looking forward to some range reports with pictures of 300 yard groups once you get things sorted out. Keep us posted.

Longbow

========================================

That's a Big Bear round. That .69 730gr Mini Ball would tear up about anything you hit with it also. Both way over Kill for DEER. If you were Hunting Grizz/Polar Bear, Water Buffalo, Elephant, Rhino, other Large Game Animals, you might want one of these!

The .69 Mini Ball proves it can be done and it's 730grs made from Soft lead! Probably lighter with Wheel Weights. You have to THINK, Outside of the Box! Some of you have No problem filling in the Hollow Back Cavity of Slugs with Glue! Now I haven't found the Ballistics of that Mini Ball Yet or these 5-10 other Slugs people have been using around the world, but THINK of this. What if you Hollowed Out the Mini Ball even more to lighten it and just used a Plastic Blank Rod Glued in to reduce the Weight, or made a Custom made better Ballistic Shape with a Plastic Blank Filler. You also have the option to use other materials as you said, copper or brass. They use to make a Reloader to Swagged 50 BMG rounds out of Copper Water Pipe with a Lead Core. If you have a CNC Lathe (and I DO, a 9" x 20") you could turn your own Slug/Bullet out of them other materials. But I would like to keep it Simple and just find a Bullet/Slug to Cast.

They make a Sabot Plastic Case for the different 50 Cal / 50 BMG Bullets for 12ga Hulls. Since Bullets/Slugs are getting Expensive, I would really like to find a Mold and just Cast them, as I said in 7/8oz to 1oz Bullets. I doubt the Heavy 50 BMG Bullets would Stabilize at these lower fps. 50 BMG Bullet Diameter = .510 in. Could you Drill Center of Sabot case out for a little bigger Bullet, probably!

US Military 50 BMG Bullets were made in:

Military sniper units 750gr. solid brass CNC turned for use in single-shot rifles will not fit most magazines.

Semi-Auto Match 739gr. solid brass CNC turned for use in semi-auto rifles, designed to fit in magazines.

AP (Armor Piercing) NEW manufacture w/ surplus bullets - 696gr.

FMJ / Ball (Full Metal Jacket) New manufacture, Surplus 647 gr. M33 projectiles in New Winchester brass.

API (Armor Piercing Incendiary) NEW manufacture w/ surplus bullets - 639gr.

Tracer NEW manufacture w/ surplus bullets - 632gr.

Blue Tip - Full Incendiary NEW manufacture w/ surplus bullets - 621gr.

APIT(Armor Piercing Incendiary Tracer)NEW manufacture w/ surplus bullets - 606gr.

There is a whole bunch of Pistol & Rifle 50 Cal Bullet Shapes to look at. I'm sure there are some Shapes out there that are more Accurate than the typical 12ga Slug.

[Hamish]

Armilite,

Instead of posting all this “stuff” that you say you “know” works, why don’t you just get to work, make some slug cartridges, and report back with your results?

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK after looking at the Typhoon F12 and the videos on the gun I can see this is a complete waste of time. This gun is a SMOOTHBORE!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that "There is no ammo available or that you can make that will deliver MOA Accuracy from a Smoothbore Barrel." Period.

Maybe there is a "Laser Guided" round I don't know about?

If it was possible, everyone here would already be doing it.

You are coming up with all kinds of ammo that you think will give you a shot at 300 yards and also coming up with all kinds of support for your theories that are not founded in reality. None of this will work.

Keep in mind you can make anything work in your head. Making it work in the real world is where you run into problems.

If you are willing to spend the money and get a Tarhunt Bolt Action 20 or 12 bore Rifle and then use the ammo you've found designed specifically for those guns,,, then you've got a shot.

There is no cast boolit that you can load in a shotshell that will produce your desired results. A Large Cast Boolit out of a Sharps Rifle would be hard pressed to do it, unless you were very well versed in loading for long range shooting. And it is not something you just show up at the range with, and magically out shoot the guys who've done it for years.

However in the spirit of advancing the sport I will entertain your ideas,,, as soon as you post some results of your loaded ammo ?

So we are waiting for your results?

Please hurry, cuz in 3 weeks your gun may be banned in the US! Beto says so!!!

Now your gun may come in handy in the upcoming Civil War! But keep your shots closer than 100 yards.

Randy