I say what you say!!!Originally Posted by brewer12345
Best way to handle this situation, "Don't ask, Don't tell."
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I say what you say!!!
Best way to handle this situation, "Don't ask, Don't tell."
Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting
This is definitely a polarizing topic. I enjoy listening to both sides and trying to understand the vehemently held beliefs of each.
Prior to any sort of ability to kill wolves without getting government involved, a large ranching family west of me had not only large numbers of deaths, but the weight loss of the grass cattle was incredible after several released packs took up residency (on a very large tract of their private land). All of this family's holdings were in a public hunting access program up until that point. The family patriarch discontinued his relationship with the FWP and disallowed public hunting on his place, then took out a full page ad in local papers explaining why he did that. Many, many ranchers (my own family included) followed suit. The beauty of this plan is that it turned armies of elk / deer / moose / bear hunters into wolf hunters. The FWP quickly changed its stance and initiated a hunting and trapping season.
The wolves are not going away, but they do need to be managed.
Grass roots movements like that are the only way to make any sort of changes in these issues.
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Had a neighbor who bragged his dog was more then half wolf , size of it and how high it could stand when it got at a buck hanging in my barn and eating off it I believe he was right more then half wolf , number 3 and number 4 leg hold taps and set to a old ropemaster high lead block kept him there the 3rd night , fed him back to his smaller cousins . They do not bother you much if the old ways are applied correctly .
Did you feed the hybrid to dogs?? If so, that's the most epic way I've ever heard of to solve that issue!
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They re-established the Mexican Gray Wolves in eastern Arizona around 1989. They said they can't go outside of specific areas, (yeah right).
"Distribution of wolves is limited by the 1998 10(j) Rule, which does not allow wolves to establish territories outside of the Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest, the Gila National Forest and the Fort Apache Indian Reservation. Currently, wolves that leave the recovery area must be trapped and placed into captivity or re-released back into the recovery area."
Anyway Wolves being Wolves, they took it upon themselves to ignore their so-called man made boundaries. They have been spotted near the Flagstaff area, and one was even captured at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. A buddy had one come to a Coyote call just south of the Grand Canyon.
Moral of the story is that they will adapt, get loose of their "collars", and just like Coyotes they will expand their range.
"Wolves are adaptable. They don’t require habitat management or manipulation to succeed. Rather, their interactions with civilization make reintroduction success a challenge. Agencies work together tirelessly to manage interactions among wolves, livestock, and people, and have specific standard operating procedures in place to guide them".
Sounds like a LOT of wasted taxpayer dollars to me.
It went out for the coyotes , figured they could use it .
I would say release them just West of Boulder, let them get established then move into the greater Boulder area. Don't forget to release a batch right by the capitol building, in Denver. Maybe a few on Lookout Mtn. too!!
See what kind of headlines the Denver Post has then!!!
Wasting dollars? Naw, just job security for a bunch of folks with wildlife management degrees and a shortage of work for them without a wolfarama program!!
Three44s
Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207
“There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”
I don't live in Colorado, but other than that, I agree with everything scattershot said in his post.
Robert
In a way, it's sad for the remainder of the true native wolves. When the Canadian version was released they basically took over any remaining pockets of wild wolves. It's very disconcerting to me that the EIA for the Greater Yellowstone Area in the early 90's didn't even give a nod to that thought. They are extremely efficient predators and the elk behaviour in the areas where larger packs are located has become odd to say the least. Moose calf survivability is at an all-time low in those areas as well.
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The current Governor for WA, Inslie, instituted a citizen’s work group for wolf management around eight years ago at the start of his first term.
It was a long hard slog but eventually the environmentalists, the sportsmen, the Ag groups and the agencies came up with a working plan. Along the way, the WDFW contracted with a woman for the sum of $850,020.00 to “facilitate” the process. She did her bank account proud as she was paid $200 per hour traveling time plus expenses and $400 per hour when in an actual meeting.
I got wind of it and a State Senator was good enough to meet with our local County Farm Bureau Board about then. I brought up the topic of the “$850,020.00 woman” and I thought the good Senator was going to flip out on us! He was steamed! You see WFDW raided their capital budget to hire her ..... Oh was he HOT!
Our very next board meeting this woman is busting her chops to sit with us and explain stuff!
All my cattle people save for myself and one other cattleman were so mad that they boycotted that board meeting. Our President (then) turned me loose to bring out the fraud. The local Sunnyside paper was there and the editor did a bang up story!
I can sum her expertise in a single word: Mollycoddler!
The work group finally came up with a plan. The enviros realize they can not control the ranchers without “buy in”. If the ranchers are just thrown under the bus then the wolves will end up dead tied under east bound long haul trucks.
So the plan consisted of a lethal removal element whereby the WDFW would after a complex twisted set of rules were followed kill some offending wolves so long as the rancher was also diligently following the non-lethal protocols.
NOW: The WDFW drank the koolaid and believed that wolves are not very interested in livestock. This was propaganda drummed out by the enviros. The Department agreed to the ranchers steadfast demand that offending wolves must be removed because they were in my estimation hood winked.
As the elk and deer have gotten hard to find, the wolves have keyed in on the livestock. The ranchers are doing everything that they are tasked with.
Gov. Inslie is getting push back to break his promise and do away with his very own commission’s recommendations.
He now expects the RANCHERS to invent whole cloth brand new non-lethal measures and implement them! Killing wolves is going to be halted or severely restrict the practice.
Now these wildlife folks are supposed to be the experts. How can the ranchers be expected to be more savvy that so called trained professionals? Ranchers come in with working non-lethal deterents when all the so called experts can’t?
It’s all a set up to break the ranchers. Forced failure!
Three44s
Last edited by Three44s; 12-26-2020 at 08:24 PM.
Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207
“There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”
Yeah, we have coyotes around here, no wolves. 1st cousin to the wolf. The coyotes make intrusions into the neighborhood from time to time. Kill the pets for supper. A large suburban area of a 130,000 size city. They have learned to navigate the drainage ditches to get in. Incredibly smart, ingenious animal. They adapt to all situations. My gun club is just south of the city dump. If you are out there at dusk, you hear them light up. Sounds like 2 or 3 packs out there. Quite a songfest. I hunted 60 miles north of here on land with no close neighbors. Found round paw prints with no claw marks as big as a piece of bread. I know what kind of animal leaves those. Never go into the woods without firepower. Last recorded kill of cougar was about 40 years ago a couple of counties east and north of me. I know they are there. I saw something when I was 19 that had eyes about 4 inches apart. No noise, no movement seen. It was there one moment, then it was gone. In the clearing between us was a rabbit, frozen still, staring in that direction. I remember a high school student, a cross-country runner, training in the foothills above Idaho City. Killed by a cougar. I've read National Geographic articles about cougars roaming from Idaho to Los Angelos, and the Everglades to Atlanta.(tracked by collar) The one in Los Angelos stayed a month or so, living in a wooded area near a freeway and would roam neighborhoods at late night, apparently looking for an easy meal, aka pets. Once wolves get near incorporated areas, they will adapt as their cousin the coyote has. Pity the late night runner or the couple taking a late night walk.
One of my father's favorite statements: "If I say a chicken dips snuff, look under his wing for the snuffbox" How I was raised, who I am.
What a great thread!
Shows the range of people thinking about what are we going to do, since we aren't hunting wolves anymore. I was 14 years in North Pole Alaska, mowed the lawn on the edge of Chena Lake Park. Never did see a wolf, but a pack of wolf prints came in the new snow, single file, right between our houses. Neighbor got them on a game camera. They came through about once a week, about 3AM, hunting ptarmigan rabbits squirrels cats and dogs. If I waited, they knew it, I never saw them. About 6:30 small children were out in the dark at the bus stop...
Wolves knew better, than to see mothers with rifles.
I said to my neighbor "I might be shooting at your house".
He replied, "Do you think I won't be shooting at yours?".
That neighborhood has armed housewives. Burglars? Watch the crossfire.
Ten years ago woof pelt were $100 or more, less $10 a hole.
In my old age, I can't sit out under the Spirit River anymore.
On another site, specific to firearms issues in the Northwest, there was a guy who posted about a supposed cougar attack on the West side of Washington state within the past couple of years. IIRC, it was a female out hiking alone and unarmed.
Well, the poster had a good friend that worked for the sheriff's office or WDFW, that was on scene to the gruesome site and had seen cougar attacks and bear attacks before. He reportedly said that this was no cougar or bear attack and was obviously a wolf or dog attack. I guess a WDFW expert on scene also confirmed that it wasn't a cougar or bear attack and said it was a wolf or large dog. Based on the location and remoteness of the location, it was logical to assume it was a wolf. Apparently tracks at the scene confirmed it was a wolf, or multiple wolves.
However, the WDFW ruled it as a cougar attack. Purely political move, as having a confirmed wolf fatality would hinder the leftist agenda.
When I bought my house in a tiny town in Eastern Washington a few years ago, a neighbor came over and said that she had seen a wolf walking through my yard and then down the street at 3 am one time. A year later, my daughter and her husband were visiting and on the drive out of my town, saw a large black wolf up on the forested ridge running along the tree line in the middle of the day.
My father, who lives 12 miles away out in the country, had one show up in the field up behind his house. It's still there...
Another friend who lives way up in the woods about 10 miles away shot and killed a wolf-coyote hybrid going after her goats. I saw the picture and it was huge. Idaho Fish & Game showed up and confirmed it was a hybrid, but said his department would never officially admit it or recognize it's existence.
I've seen wolves twice in the wild, and only in the last ten years. I've seen cougars twice, as well, in 40 years of being in the woods. And there are a heck of a lot more cougars than wolves in the woods.
My brother came upon a wolf caught in a leg trap a few years ago and said it was like a big nervous dog. Wagging it's tail when he appeared, and whining. He said he felt sorry for it and wanted to end it's misery, but knew better to let the trapper do his job. He heard later that someone else came along and killed the wolf and stole it. Hides were getting around $400 then.
I've been camping alone and had wolves come down and lurk in the trees and watch. Never saw them, but when going out in the woods about 50 yards from camp, found their scat. It's a creepy feeling.
"Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River
Actually there is quite a story about that!
The wolf we are all talking about is not native! Really!
The US Fish & Wildlife Service imported in wolves from Canada and Alaska, crossed them and released them.
There was a population of some seventy individuals of the true native Yellowstone wolf left and an elderly couple were studying them. In spite of their objections, the US government under Bill Clinton released the non-native wolves under a special category called a “nonessential experimental population”.
The Wyoming State Farm Bureau sued the Federal Government on the basis that it is illegal release a species that threatens another one that is listed as endangered. The couple studying the true native wolves also joined in the legal action.
The Federal District Judge ruled that the Government needed to REMOVE the larger more northern wolves to stop harming the true native species but on second thought believed it such a drastic injunction that he suspended his own order pending appeal. The 10 th Circuit heard the case and though there was alarm over the government actions the panel of judges gave the agency a pass since the bureaucrats were found to be “experts in their own field”.
https://www.animallaw.info/case/wyom...earu-v-babbitt
Three44s
Last edited by Three44s; 12-27-2020 at 12:22 AM.
Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207
“There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”
You're right! I remember this well and also recall hearing Bruce B's response at a town hall meeting shortly after initiation of this lawsuit. Basically, the powers that be released sharks into the pond and called them trout.
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It’s all good, they’re from the government and are here to help you.
When will we ever learn?
There are ways to take care of the problem. Think and learn there are ways to get them gone. Old ways not the best but do work. They have to eat. Now what is the question.
Waiting for permission from # 2 to "save the woman"? Really? Thinking an acceptable level of mortal danger is OK because nobody has been eaten alive yet? Really? I repeat my disbelief - good grief!
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