Powder no longer made

[abunaitoo]

Trying to clean things up, I decided to put powders in cans into plastic bottles.
Cans and anything metal rust here.
I have a few cans of older powder, not made anymore.
I'd like to find what they are close enough to use available load data.
Alcan.............................AL-7
Herculese.......................Hivel #2
Winchester Western........230P, 780BR, 630P

Also.............
Is the old powder data the same as newer powder data.
I have old cans of...........
Hodgdon............BLC2, H322, H335, H380, H414, 4831.
Herculese...........Bullseye, Herco, Red dot, Green dot, Uniuue.
Dupont..............SR4756, 700X
IMR...................4046, 4895, 4320.

[richhodg66]

I have quite a bit of Alcan 7 and several load books with data. Burn rate is about midway between Unique and Blue Dot. Meters very well and seems to be a good powder for .357 and .44 Magnum.

[MOA]

A call or short email to Hodgdon should get you a answer on the data relevancy of those powders Hodgdon has now acquired ownership of.

[skeettx]

HiVel #2 and IMR 3031 are quite close

The old Speer Manuals will have LOTS of loads for AL-7 in the
pistol section. I use it for milder 44 Mag loads.

Get this book and it will bring many hours of great reading
https://www.amazon.com/Propellant-Pr.../dp/0935632190

Mike

[richhodg66]

HiVel #2 and IMR 3031 are quite close

The old Speer Manuals will have LOTS of loads for AL-7 in the
pistol section. I use it for milder 44 Mag loads.

Get this book and it will bring many hours of great reading
https://www.amazon.com/Propellant-Pr.../dp/0935632190

Mike

There's a store nearby that still had some paper bags of Hi Vel #2 on the shelf. Was tempted to buy it, I have data.

[Tatume]

You shouldn't use just any plastic bottles. Plastic canisters originally containing gun powder are made of material that does not accumulate static electricity.

[abunaitoo]

I have an older Propellant Profiles.
Never thought of looking in it.

Surprised a shop still has Hivel #2 foe sale.
They mush have other old goodies around too.

I'm using only empty powder bottles.
Washed out and dried.
Spray the outside with flat white paint.
Write on it, and spray with clear.

[skeettx]

WELL, if you have Propellant Profiles, you are all set

[Harter66]

I have 1960, 66, 72, 78 , 92 , 2000 , 08' , and 16' data from Lyman , Speer , Sierra , and Hornady covering Hercules and ATK versions of Unique . Having looked it over several years ago the changes had zero effect on my loads . Across the board they remain essentially unchanged even with changes in test equipment .

Red Dot data in pistols is the same , I haven't broken anything with the 68' lot using 1992 data .

Dupont 4350 and 4831 were always about .3-.5 gr higher charges than H data in 308, x55/57 , and 06' families . IMR remains the same as DuPont in load data , however there were changes with the retested data in some cartridges from CUP to PSI with like era lots ........ Again if you're not loading max loads probably there's not enough change to worry about .

I wouldn't expect to see more than lot variations in BLC 2 .

I don't use any of the others so you're on your own there .

[richhodg66]

I have an older Propellant Profiles.
Never thought of looking in it.

Surprised a shop still has Hivel #2 foe sale.
They mush have other old goodies around too.

I'm using only empty powder bottles.
Washed out and dried.
Spray the outside with flat white paint.
Write on it, and spray with clear.

This place is my favorite gun shop. It is a vast steel building with the most unorganized eclectic accumulation of stuff you ever saw, I try to get over there and paw through stuff often. The old man must be pushing 90, but if you ask him if he has something obscure, it'll take him about five minutes max to find it. Took my brothers in there and he asked one of them what he was looking for, I think it caught him by surprise, but he was casually looking for a set of .351 WSL dies, the old guy walked to the back of the store, went through a couple of boxes and produces a set. I had a similar experience when I rescued an old Lachmiller press from an antique store and wanted some of the style of shell holders that it used. Thirty seconds he had a cigar box full of them for me to pick through. Old dies, old bullet molds, old powder and factory ammo, some guns though oddly, I've only ever bought one in 25 years or so from them.

It's full of just about every kind of boating, fishing, and other outdoor sporting goods stuff too. I know I'm gonna bawl uncontrollably when the old man passes and the store closes down. I can't think of another place still in existence like it.

[clearwater]

WW data

[Martin Luber]

Rich, you're already in heaven! Close down? Nope, buy the place

[Martin Luber]

Dupont became IMR, Hercules became Alliant, all the same stuff there. Hogdon is close to its similar named competition but not exactly the same. Reduce loads slightly and you'll be fine. Just be sure the stick powders like 4320 etc are not decomposing. They have red dust in them when bad. They can combust spontaneously, l have friends who were burned out from it. Shotgun powders like 700x etc don't degrade.

[richhodg66]

Dupont became IMR, Hercules became Alliant, all the same stuff there. Hogdon is close to its similar named competition but not exactly the same. Reduce loads slightly and you'll be fine. Just be sure the stick powders like 4320 etc are not decomposing. They have red dust in them when bad. They can combust spontaneously, l have friends who were burned out from it. Shotgun powders like 700x etc don't degrade.

I have used very old Unique and 2400 and current production stuff using the same data, no problems. I think you would find bigger differences between production lots from the same era.

Of course, it helps a lot to start with min data and work up carefully.

I'd never throw powder away that I could find data for. I used up about four pounds of Alcan 120 a few years ago, apparently it was never very popular and not much data, plus it had been discontinued for 40+ years. I found enough data and comparing determined it burned about like Red Dot, so I used starting Red Dot data and worked up carefully, it actually seemed to burn a little slower than Red Dot. I shot it in all kinds of things, pistols and rifles and used all of it up, wish I could get more. Bottom line, a lot of guys when I asked shirieked "throw it away, it's old and dangerous!". No way I was gonna throw away four pounds of pistol powder without at least trying to figure it out.

I had a similar experience trying to figure out the old B-West 36 powder with very limited data. I was younger and not as experienced then so spent a lot more time and math comparing, but the bottom line was using IMR 3031 data with works fine until I used up the several pounds of it I got for free when a friend moved and couldn't take it with him. You just have to expend some brain cells figuring this stuff out.

[Dekota56]

Rich Years ago I also used 2400 powder. It was a flake powder. If I recall I worked up load for 44 mag with it.
I know it was during the late 70’s or beginning of the 80’s I used it a lot.
During that time I used 296 it was more of a ball powder you had a little more not burned up powder in your barrel. where the 2400 flake powder burned faster. All in all if I had a reloading data. I kept the powder.

[Blanket]

I have data for all of those powders, pm me what you want to load with them and I will send you picture of the manuals for them

[richhodg66]

Rich Years ago I also used 2400 powder. It was a flake powder. If I recall I worked up load for 44 mag with it.
I know it was during the late 70’s or beginning of the 80’s I used it a lot.
During that time I used 296 it was more of a ball powder you had a little more not burned up powder in your barrel. where the 2400 flake powder burned faster. All in all if I had a reloading data. I kept the powder.

Guess I never looked at it close enough, but 2400 is so fine and meters so well, I assumed it was a ball powder. It is very versatile, much more so that Winchester 296/H110. Don't have much use for 286, doesn't load down well and is really only good for top end loads in the magnum pistols. Good stuff in .30 Carbine loads.

[ascast]

There's a store nearby that still had some paper bags of Hi Vel #2 on the shelf. Was tempted to buy it, I have data.

I would buy that in a heart beat

[richhodg66]

I would buy that in a heart beat

I doubt it's going anywhere. I may ask him to get it down so I can look at it next time, it was up on a high shelf so I didn't look too close.

[RG1911]

Way back when, AL-7 was my powder for 120-gr cast bullets in 9mm. I do wish I could find a batch.

Cheers,
Richard