Curious Sticky Extraction

[chutesnreloads]

Lucked into some factory .308 Win ammo a while back. It's Monarch brand loaded in PPU brass.
Figured if nothing else the brass would be good for reloading. Was kind of impressed with the group
I got with them so hurried back to the store and bought 3 more boxes.
Next time I got out to shoot, noticed a little sticky extraction. Rifle is a Savage Axis. The bolt lift
seems normal but it doesn't want to extract from the chamber. Not real difficult but the bolt doesn't
slide back very easy either. Some cases were a tiny bit harder than others. Don't think it's an over
pressure thing because factory Winchester brand had noticeably more recoil and no extraction issues.

After thinking a bit, tried loading one of the fired cases and noticed on closing the bolt it was a little stiff closing.
When extracting, bolt lifted ok but now, had to smack bolt handle on the table to extract the brass.
Tried it again with a few other fired brass and got same results. The Winchester brand was normal.

Got home and measured length of offending brass and found it close to maximum length. Thinking I'd figured
the problem, went and trimmed a couple cases and tried those. Same hard to extract issue.
Open to ideas on why this is happening.

[pietro]

.

PPU brass has a pretty good rep, so it sounds like a rifle issue to me.

Guns are like young kids - they rebel if not fed what they prefer.

.

[robg]

ppu brass is thinner than most ,full length size and clean your chamber. my 116 savage has a tight chamber so its fussy on sizing

[chutesnreloads]

The brass looks thicker and weighs more than the Winchester brass. It can't be a sizing issue
because it's factory ammo. Un fired cartridges load and extract perfectly fine.

[Bazoo]

Sounds like the brass is not springing back as much after firing as the winchester brass. Maybe it's softer brass or maybe it's annealed softer. You might have a bit of machining marks in the chamber that the ppu brass is grabbing.

It's possible it's over pressure, if there are other signs. Pressure doesn't equate recoil, nor necessarily velocity. You could break down 3 rounds, and reduce the powder charge slightly, then reassemble and fire them and see if the symptoms persist.

[cwtebay]

Have you tried other loads since this?
Not sure it's pertinent, but my son's 270 Savage Axis went through something similar after 200ish rounds. It turned out to be a chamber issue with build up around the shoulder area being the culprit. I actually sent it back to Savage who said as much. Suggested a longer break in period with cleaning after 5 -10 rounds. Seemed to be better after that recommendation.

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[recumbent]

Solution: Don't shoot that brand of ammo anymore.

[Larry Gibson]

Sounds like the brass is not springing back as much after firing as the winchester brass. Maybe it's softer brass or maybe it's annealed softer. You might have a bit of machining marks in the chamber that the ppu brass is grabbing.

It's possible it's over pressure, if there are other signs. Pressure doesn't equate recoil, nor necessarily velocity. You could brake down 3 rounds, and reduce the powder charge slightly, then reassemble and fire them and see if the symptoms persist.

This would be my initial assessment also. To reiterate; felt recoil difference between two different loads seldom has anything to do with pressure. I also suggest breaking down 3 - 5 rounds, reduce the powder charge 5% and try them.

[Texas by God]

I sighted in a .270 for a friend with Monarch/PPU ammo that gave hard bolt lift and extraction. I have used Monarch in the military calibers with no drama. I just resighted it with my handloads and pulled down the remainder of that box of 20 Monarchs. The gun, a Remington 710, worked fine with my middle range reloads. I suspect that they were just bit hot from the factory. I like PPU brass and use it a lot.

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[country gent]

compare loaded neck dia between the winchester and monarch reloads. use a good micrometer and 2 points around the necks. Ink a tight case up with a magic marker chamber and extract carefully then inspect for rub marks and burnish marks.

[Gtek]

There was a bit a chatter a while back on another site about that brand in 30-30 being hot with difficult extraction. All other ammo used operated normal, load that, sticky. Walks like a duck----.

[beshears]

I have a 98 Mauser in 8x60S. Made brass from 30-06 sized and shortened. Had to beat bolt handle open with a rawhide mallet. Bought factory brass from Graf and Sons and works fine.

[Bazoo]

I have shot a box of monarch ppu in my 30-06 and didn't have any issues. I have a part of a box of ppu in 30-30 I bought from the gunsmith. Next time I go out shooting I'll see to remember to try it, probably take me a bit though as it's cold.

[chutesnreloads]

Not knocking Monarch or PPU brass. I use it in a number of different cartridges and have liked their brass.
Just something I've not encountered before. When I get time will pull a few and reduce charge to see how they react.

[Gtek]

I would have to check case length also, might be one of those soccer versus football things! Several decades ago I had a bunch of Austrian that was long, the Garands hated it but was able to run it through the M1917's and 03's okay.

[robg]

had an old 308 in the club that would do the same thing with full power loads,polished chamber etc still did it ,but light loads fine .

[gumbo333]

Not Monarch but PPU 150 gr 308, blue box, fired in my grandsons Roger American(youth) is hot. Big boom, stiff recoil, big fireball out muzzle, something like max load of H335. Rem and Fed 150 gr factory is much more sedate. But I do like PPU brass for reloading. Haven't noticed the hot loads in other caliber PPU ammo I have used.

[chutesnreloads]

Finally got time to mess with it some more. Broke down 3 rounds and reduced the load by a grain.
Same sticky extraction. Took a large bore mop coated with Flitz and worked the chamber over.
This appears to have solved the trouble. In another 100 or so rounds should know for sure

[Bazoo]

I finally got around to shooting the PPU 30-30, sort of. I gave it to my buddy and he was going to fire it from his marlin 336. 3 shots, the last locked his gun solid. No signs of high pressure on the case that we could tell. I didn’t measure it. Gun shot fine before and after with different ammo. I haven’t check the rest of the rounds out but thought maybe I’d break them down and reduce the powder charge 2 grains. Figured I’d report back.

[Fulltang86]

Sounds like the brass is not springing back as much after firing as the winchester brass. Maybe it's softer brass or maybe it's annealed softer. You might have a bit of machining marks in the chamber that the ppu brass is grabbing.

It's possible it's over pressure, if there are other signs. Pressure doesn't equate recoil, nor necessarily velocity. You could break down 3 rounds, and reduce the powder charge slightly, then reassemble and fire them and see if the symptoms persist.

I have the same issue from .308 Win New PPU ammo. I was told it was common with PPU brass as it was considered cheap and nasty here in NZ.
I wonder if it has a lower copper content in the Brass thus reducing spring back.