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Thread: Reckless .22 Mag reloading experiments

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Reckless .22 Mag reloading experiments

    Don't try this it is probably on the order of here hold my beer and watch this.

    I have done some stuff like this with .22 Mag before but using .22 Mag brass that I pulled the bullets and powder and just reloaded with different powder and bullets to see if I could get better performance out of handguns. .22 Mag in handguns is not much better than top end .22 LR ammo.
    All my testing is in my Ruger Single Six.

    I did improve the performance but not enough to be worth the trouble.

    This time the motive is a bit different. .22 Mag ammo has always been expensive and now is also hard to find. What I did was combine a couple old experiments. One was a sleeve that lets me fire .22LR in .22 Mag chambers and the afore mentioned performance improvement experiment.

    What I have done is use my adapter sleeves, broken down .22 LR and my new powder charges.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The picture top to bottom:

    Fired cartridge

    Loaded cartridge and fired donor .22 LR case

    Donor .22 LR case, sleeve and donor .22 LR bullet

    I worked up charges until cylinder rotation was too stiff to cock the hammer but could be rotated with help from my free hand and then back off 10%. It was brass flowing into the firing pin hole that resists cylinder rotation. Dropping down 10% lets the hammer cock and rotate the cylinder but it is a little stiff. Dropping back to my starting loads are as good as factory ammo and don't have cylinder rotation drag.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The donor ammo is Winchester bulk pack ammo. The bullets weigh 36 gr.

    The max charge I chrono'd was 1640 fps

    The 10% less charge was 1450 fps

    I did not chrono my starting load.

    My past experiment I used a 35 gr Hornady V-Max bullet in a CCI .22 Mag donor case chrono'd 1480 fps and with a 40 gr. .22 LR donor bullet the velocity was 1310.

    In my gun:

    Win 40gr. mags 1329 fps
    CCI 40gr. Maxi-Mag 1309 fps
    Aguila Interceptor 40gr. .22 LR 1114 fps

    In other reports:



    .22 WMR vs. .22 LR in Ruger Single Six

    .22 Mag.
    CCI Maxi-Mag 40-gr. FMJ 1360 fps
    CCI Maxi-Mag 40-gr. JHP 1315 fps
    Federal 40-gr. FMJ 1325 fps
    Federal 40-gr. JHP 1308 fps
    Winchester Super-X 40-gr. FMJ 1351 fps
    Winchester Super-X 40-gr. JHP 1306 fps

    .22LR
    CCI Mini-Mag 36-gr. HP 1063 fps
    Federal Champion Target 40-gr. Solid 970 fps
    Remington High Velocity 36-gr. HP 1098 fps
    Remington Yellow Jacket 33-gr. HP 1279 fps
    Winchester Super Silhouette 42-gr. Solid 953 fps

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  2. #2
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    Good Lord, look what Covid has done to you!
    I think you will be much happier with .327 Federal Magnum, from a reloading standpoint.

  3. #3
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    I considered this some time ago, during my more active "what if" stage. I thought of cutting off 22 WMR cases for use as the sleeves, but have not tried it. I wondered if the WMR brass might be too thick near the head. I've now got a supply of primed 22 LR cases, which makes things straightforward. One used to turn up the occasional 22 WRF (older, shorter case than the WMR) rifle or Colt PP Target and this sort of adaptation would get those old girls back in action, too.

    Tim, how do you supply yourself with your sleeves?

    As for primed LR cases, I got them from https://fedarm.com/product/22lr-prim...-2000-ct-pack/

    I ordered on two occasions, both beginning from an 'out of stock' situation. I requested email notification of in stock and, on both occasions, got a notice within a week or so and put in an order right away.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangitgriff View Post
    Good Lord, look what Covid has done to you!
    I think you will be much happier with .327 Federal Magnum, from a reloading standpoint.
    Yes and no. I have a Dan Wesson revolver in 32-20 that is cheap to feed and shoots better than the single six or any repeating handgun I own except my Ruger MKII's. I am an experimenter, I actually do Rocket R&D as my day job. I am happiest doing experiments.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nueces View Post
    I considered this some time ago, during my more active "what if" stage. I thought of cutting off 22 WMR cases for use as the sleeves, but have not tried it. I wondered if the WMR brass might be too thick near the head. I've now got a supply of primed 22 LR cases, which makes things straightforward. One used to turn up the occasional 22 WRF (older, shorter case than the WMR) rifle or Colt PP Target and this sort of adaptation would get those old girls back in action, too.

    Tim, how do you supply yourself with your sleeves?

    As for primed LR cases, I got them from https://fedarm.com/product/22lr-prim...-2000-ct-pack/

    I ordered on two occasions, both beginning from an 'out of stock' situation. I requested email notification of in stock and, on both occasions, got a notice within a week or so and put in an order right away.
    I make the sleeves from fired WMR brass and yes the head end is thicker so to use them as sleeves you have to put the head end toward the muzzle. I need to do some accuracy testing to see if the tightness in the muzzle end of the sleeve is swaging down the bullet enough to cause issues. If it does I can outside turn or inside ream the sleeves. The function fine as is but it might hurt accuracy.

    I have checked on buying primed .22 LR cases and passed for now because with shipping they are as expensive as the ammo I am using as donors and the donors donate bullets as well. I am still considering buying some but am in no rush. With primers never being cheaper than 5 cents a piece in the future and .22 LR maybe never going back to under 10 cents per round or many both becoming unobtainium I will be sad if I did not buy those primed cases.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  6. #6
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    Tim, I reload primed empty 22LR cases with 2.1gr Bullseye ... 1530 FPS and 4.5gr Swiss Null-B ... 1320 FPS
    Regards
    John

  7. #7
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    I always figured a .22 Mag from a handgun was roughly equivalent to a .22 LR from a rifle, and if I needed more power than that, it was time to move to a bigger gun.

    Robert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    I always figured a .22 Mag from a handgun was roughly equivalent to a .22 LR from a rifle, and if I needed more power than that, it was time to move to a bigger gun.

    Robert

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Boy View Post
    Tim, I reload primed empty 22LR cases with 2.1gr Bullseye ... 1530 FPS and 4.5gr Swiss Null-B ... 1320 FPS
    Those velocities are in rifles, right?

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mk42gunner View Post
    I always figured a .22 Mag from a handgun was roughly equivalent to a .22 LR from a rifle, and if I needed more power than that, it was time to move to a bigger gun.

    Robert
    That sounds about right to me. The experiment was more about what could be done than what might be practical. The knowledge might be valuable in particular cases. I have a 10 inch barrel .22 LR bolt action pistol and some ammo shoots at a higher velocity out of that gun than it does out of a longer barrel rifle. I get over 1400 fps out of that pistol with Aguila Interceptors with 40 gr. bullets. That is pretty impressive for .22 LR. I should have asked John Boy what bullets weigh in his Bullseye loads that break 1500 fps.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  11. #11
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    Are u seating with a hornet die?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plastikosmd View Post
    Are u seating with a hornet die?
    No, I put the bullets into the sleeve from the head side (breach side), charge with powder and then press in the .22 LR casing.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  13. #13
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    I remember back in the fifties or sixties someone did an experiment. He took a rifle chambered for .22 WRF, bored a hole into the bore about six inches ahead of the chamber. Then he built a saddle that fit around the barrel to go over the hole. The saddle was also chambered for a .22WRF cartridge, behind the chamber was a threaded portion he could screw a bolt into. He would unscrew the bolt, take an empty case, put a little powder in it and put it into the saddle. Screw the bolt in, chamber a cartridge, and fire the contraption. The cartridge would fire, the bullet would go past the hole with the extra powder in it, igniting the powder. He claimed he got higher velocities with no extra pressure.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim22 View Post
    I remember back in the fifties or sixties someone did an experiment. He took a rifle chambered for .22 WRF, bored a hole into the bore about six inches ahead of the chamber. Then he built a saddle that fit around the barrel to go over the hole. The saddle was also chambered for a .22WRF cartridge, behind the chamber was a threaded portion he could screw a bolt into. He would unscrew the bolt, take an empty case, put a little powder in it and put it into the saddle. Screw the bolt in, chamber a cartridge, and fire the contraption. The cartridge would fire, the bullet would go past the hole with the extra powder in it, igniting the powder. He claimed he got higher velocities with no extra pressure.
    I remember a similar, if not the same, article, but my recall has it being the 22 LR and the extra chamber about 6" back from the muzzle.

    It's easy to make a case against such cumbersome arrangements for field use, but all such experimentation provides new understanding and I enjoy reading about someone's out-of-the-box headwork.

  15. #15
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    Tim, the velocities posted are from a rifle... JM Marlin Ballard, 28” ...
    Regards
    John

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim22 View Post
    I remember back in the fifties or sixties someone did an experiment. He took a rifle chambered for .22 WRF, bored a hole into the bore about six inches ahead of the chamber. Then he built a saddle that fit around the barrel to go over the hole. The saddle was also chambered for a .22WRF cartridge, behind the chamber was a threaded portion he could screw a bolt into. He would unscrew the bolt, take an empty case, put a little powder in it and put it into the saddle. Screw the bolt in, chamber a cartridge, and fire the contraption. The cartridge would fire, the bullet would go past the hole with the extra powder in it, igniting the powder. He claimed he got higher velocities with no extra pressure.
    If you've ever seen those compressed-air "pumpkin cannon" on Utoob - that's how they work. First charge of air starts the pumpkin moving, them the second charge keeps it moving to the muzzle.
    Eleutheromaniac

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