Ruger Old Army-Cylinder Conversion

[crandall crank]

Just getting started thinking about a conversion cylinder for a Ruger Old Army. I have found there to be three (3) main manufacturers of these: Kirst, Howell and Taylor.

The first and main concern is that the Firearm is NOT modified in any shape or manner. It MUST remain "original". It is used, but not abused and wish it to be un-molested.

Are any of these manufacture's products better than another, if so why? Also does any of these require the firearm to be modified? I see there are some that offer "gated or non-gated" options. What does this mean?

I would be shooting 45 Colt, smokeless powder loads. It should be a stainless cylinder to match.

Thanks for any insight and sorry to be long.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello crandall crank,

First off the Howell & Taylor are virtually the same. Or originally they were, Howell sold his angled patent off to Taylor's & Co..
The only real difference you will see is the Kirst has one firing pin, the back plate stays stationary.
While on the Howell & Taylor's, the back plate is pinned to the cylinder & rotates with the cylinder.
Thus having 6 firing pins, one for each chamber. they will all require cylinder removal to load.
One is really no better than the other, kind of like Chevrolet & Ford.
Cowboy loads are recommended for Italian Revolvers, not sure if that's necessary with a Ruger.

AntiqueSledMan.

[crandall crank]

Thanks Sledman for the info. I can't be sure from the pictures, but does any of them allow the hammer to rest "between the chamber", such as the original cylinder? This would be a bonus as it would allow loading all six chamber and still be safe. I kinda like the idea of the back plate rotating with the cylinder. Is the Howell a "drop in" conversion or is some fitting required by them?

[seaboltm]

seems like on the last Howell conversion cylinder I had there was no provision to rest the hammer between cylinders and it was advised against strongly in the instructions.

[Buzz Krumhunger]

The Howell I had needed a small amount filed removed with a file in order to fit my Ruger Old Army cylinder window.

[Chris S]

I have the Taylor cylinder in my ROA. Breathed new life into the old gun. I very much like shooting it again. You cannot use heavy or even mid level loads in it. The instructions recommend something like 850FPS loads, but do not specify bullet weight. I load a 200 grain flat nosed slug over 6 grains of Trail Boss. Also, the same slug in 45 Scoville brass with 5 grains of Trail Boss. Snake loads work well too.

The cylinder did require just a tad bit of polishing on the front shoulder area where the pin enters. A couple quick passes on a convolute wheel solved this.

Chris

[AntiqueSledMan]

I have a Howell chambered in 44 Colt in a Pietta New Army, it was plug & play (fun).
I also have a Howell chambered in 45 Colt in a Pietta 1851 44 Caliber,
this is a 5 shot with locking notches located between the chambers.
There is a real timing issue, I have it operating but nothing like the one I sent to 45Dragoon.
This one is a Pietta 1851, with a Kirst gated 5 shot in 45 Colt also.

AntiqueSledMan.

[bedbugbilly]

I don't have experience with the ROA, but I have four of Taylor's conversion cylinders - 2 in 45 for Uberti '58 Remington, 1 in 45 for Pietta '60 Army and one in 38 for a Pietta '58 Remington Navy. None of the four required any "fitting' and were good to go from the beginning. I'm very satisfied with them. Even with the ruggedness of the ROA, I would still stick with the makes recommendations for what to use in them. I would have to go dig out the instruction sheet again but I'm sure Chris is right on the recommendations not to exceed 850 FPS on the loads. Even so, there are plenty of loading data out there (check the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks) that fall within that and they will all be good shooting loads and get the job done.

I'm using both 45 Colt and Schofield brass with a 200 grain or a 255 grain (454-190) boolit - Red Dot for smokeless and BP. In my 38 Pietta Remington Navy, I'm using 38 Colt Long with a 150 gr RN heeled boolit - .375 with a .358 heel (Old West mold). For the 38, I'm using Red Dot or Bulls Eye as well as BP loads.

I think you would be happy with any of the conversion cylinders for your
ROlA. The thing I like about the Taylor's/Howell is that no alterations are needed but I have never tried a Kirst. On the Taylor's - the rim recess for the 45 cylinders are cut so that you can use both the 45 Colt and the 45 Schofield which has a little larger rim diameter.

[seaboltm]

The ROA is very strong, but the nipples on any percussion is the weak spot. Those are small diameter threads and will only hold so much pressure safely. Getting rid of nipples and having only a small firing pin hole made revolvers much stronger.

[kaiser]

I have a couple of Taylor conversions, one in a Ruger Old Army and one in a Pietta (both .45Colt). Both were "drop-ins" and both shoot really well with cast loads using Trail Boss with either 230RN or 255FN (Lee) bullets. While the conversions are not cheap, the ability to use Colt ammo makes them quite useful.

[crandall crank]

I've tried contacting both Howell and Taylor, since I had a couple of questions regarding any possible "fitting" that may be required to the ROA. When I called Howell, all I got was an answering machine, not even a live person. I have left several messages...no response. when I called Taylor, I got a live receptionist, which transferred me to a "voicemail". I left a message....no response.

My questions are....is this typical with either of these companies? If I am having this much trouble in giving them money for a product, how are they going to respond if I have an issue with their product. I have having serious doubts about ordering either from either of these companies. Any help with recent transactions would be much appreciated

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello crandall crank,

I'm sure everyone is running very light with this Covid situation.
I purchased the Howell cylinder for my 1858 directly from Howell.
I purchased the Howell cylinder for my 1851 from Midway.
I purchased the Kirst cylinder for my other 1851 from Old South Shooter's Supply.
I've placed an order with Midsouth Shooter's Supply lately,
received email stating they were way behind and received my order as usual.
I do see inventories are way down, guessing because of this Covid crap (can't wait to get back to normal).

AntiqueSledMan.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

While I have always been a believer in agreeing with what people wanted to do. You like spinach, eat away, take my share. I just cannot for the life of me understand why someone would go to all the trouble and expense of converting a cap & ball revolver to fire fixed ammo. It may have made sense in the late 1860s but today it seems rather like putting a saddle on a pig. Hope I didn't offend anyone.

[Outpost75]

I have a Kirst conversion in .45 ACP on my Ruger Old Army. It did require gunsmith fitting. I used that opportunity to optimize the fit-up on the gun and had my several black powder cylinders faced to match the dimensions of the Kirst conversion, and had Jerry Kieffer set back the barrel to tighten the cylinder gap, recut and lap the forcing cone, have Bowen target sights and a Belt Mountain base pin fitted, shim the hammer and do a trigger job.

I spent more on the gunsmithing than I did for the Kirst conversion, but am very happy with the way the gun turned out. It now out shoots my S&W Model 1955 Target and is a solid 2-1/2" 50-yard gun off the Ransom Rest with good handloads or old 210-grain lead SWC Western Super Match wadcutters.

[crandall crank]

Update....got in contact with Maggie at Howell. Such a nice and understanding lady. Answered ALL of my questions and then some. Will hopefully be ordering soon.

[Newtire]

I got a Taylor for my ROA and another for my Rogers & Spencer. Both great shooters.

[Owen49]

I recently bought a stainless steel, target-sighted, Uberti reproduction of the Remington New Model Army revolver. I sent off to Howell Arms for a pair of .45 Colt conversion cylinders. They're the 6-shot cylinders and they each have 7 cylinder bolt notches. When the 7th notch is engaged, the hammer will be resting BETWEEN the firing pins making it safe to load and carry 6 rounds. I bought the .45 Colt conversion cylinders because my state of residence, Indiana, will not allow any big game hunting with a percussion revolver. I'll use the percussion cylinder with light loads for plinking and small game hunting and the .45 Colt cylinders with heavy, black powder .45 Colt loads for big game hunting so I'll be 'legal'.

[Newtire]

Sounds like a plan! Plenty of time for practice.