The Ross is famous for tight tolerances...maybe that's why Tommy wasn't too fond of it in the mud of France. Smoking a dummy round that had been re sized full length and trying to chamber it...no go, no way...bright ring just forward of the web. RCBS and Lee resizing die will not do the job without modification. Can anybody steer this pilgrim toward a die that can restore factory dimensions?
Is the FL die adjusted for "cam over" of the press ram or does the shell holder but firmly against the bottom of the die?
I have to butt the shell holder firmly against the bottom of the FL die for cases to fit in my Ross M10 if the cases were fired in anything other than the Ross. Left is unfired SA 303. Second from left is a fired case. Third from left is a FL sized case. Note how very close in size the FL case is the the fired case.
Attachment 272493
Last edited by Larry Gibson; 12-02-2020 at 05:28 PM.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
As Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story. Yes, nervous about stressing the Forster Co-ax needlessly with a brisk snap over center die adjustment, I moved the resizing operation to the hulking CH "H" press with a net result of zero. Because I am such a slow learner, and the shellholder being cheaper than a die, I grind the shellholder upper flange thinner, readjust to a brisk snap over and resize another case, net result zero. So just before I decide to grind the lower die body, Murphy whispers, "why don't you measure the die before going further? By the time you get the web sized to chamber, the shoulder will be pushed back so far as to ruin the brass in short order."
So out comes the calipers, finally. The diameter of both brands comes out around the same as an unfired Mark VII...which doesn't really allow much for brass "springback" at the strongest point of the case. So, I'm looking for a resize die with an opening of .453" or sacrifice a die and grind the base and remove the shoulder area...adding a third reloading step...which is OK. The Tesla/Gibson syndrome, "deficient observation" applies here.
My dies are Hornady New Dimension. When the shell holder bumps solidly into the bottom of the die with no cam over the expansion ring in front of the web is sized to .452". Suggest you try that with your FL die. No cam over of the ram, butt the shell holder solidly against the bottom of the FL die. Also make sure the deprime stem is backed off so it isn't stopping the case on the inside.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
no "Tommy" used them in France.Originally Posted by flintlocke
I apologize, I should have said Canuckians, or whatever the preferred term for your soldiers.
Between the 29 1/2" barrel and bank vault lockup of the M10 action it is amazing the ballistics/velocity one can get out of the 303 British cartridge keeping the psi under 60,000. Getting 2950 fps with Hornady 150 gr .312 bullet! Of course not good in a SMLE or #4 action but the Ross like a P14 has no problem with it.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
Somewhat apart from your question, one of the reasons the Canadians (not the Tommies armed with the Lee Enfields that the same Internet historians claim had "excessive headspace") weren't fond of their Ross Rifles was because of what was called the ammunition scandal of the time. Reynolds and others have written about this. Politicians then, as now, were swift to find somebody else to blame a critical issue on. In this case, the Ross rifle. Later in Vietnam, the M16. In neither case, the ammunition.
The Brits were - charitably - cranking out a lot of crap ammunition at some of their arsenals. So much so that in some cases Lee Enfields had their chambers re-cut (you know, to "excessive headspace").
One of the solutions the Brits of the day had to all the crap ammunition was to give it to their colonials - being as a colonial soldier wasn't of as much value to the Brits as an Englishman. Which wasn't just their Morrocan, Indian, Algerian, etc off-white colored troops... but also to the similarly colored white Canadians with the Ross rifles. Rifles which then became suddenly blamed as being unworthy of military service... little mention made of the ammunition, nor that the Brits were recutting chambers on Lee Enfield rifles to deal with ammunition problems.
There's reference to this in the book "A Rifleman Went To War", where an American who enlisted and went overseas with the Canadians writes of how much of the Brit ammunition was pure crap, particularly for sniping purposes. And how he scouted out and redistributed (i.e. stole), lots of .303 British ammunition that they had come to know was well suited to sniping.
With that out of the way, my younger brother went down the Ross rabbit hole several decades ago after I fell down the nearby Lee Enfield rabbit hole. As far as I know, whatever resizing dies he has have done just fine dealing with his reloading chores both jacketed and cast. I will give him a call and ask him about this.
If you run out of possible solutions here, you might check in over at the Milsurps forum, lots of rabid Ross fans hanging out there.
Last edited by MOC031; 12-03-2020 at 04:00 PM.
McBride also mentioned the crap ammo the British were making in his book the Emma Gees. So they would stash cases of ammo they knew could be depended upon. Frank
I've read tales of Great War pilots delinking entire belts of MG ammo and physically testing each individual round for fit in their aircraft's MGs, then relinking (well, rebelting, really) the ammo for later use. I wonder how many of the low-number M1903 Springfield rifle failures was actually caused by defective ammo, manufactured by unskilled workers under wartime conditions.
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"I wonder how many of the low-number M1903 Springfield rifle failures was actually caused by defective ammo, manufactured by unskilled workers under wartime conditions."
Most of them.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
Nice to see some others aren't scared to death of the Ross. My M10 has the modified chamber so my fired cases look alot like an Epps round with the short shoulder. I'm also using a Hornaday set of dies for the first firing and no problem getting them to chamber. After that I go to the Lee collet neck sizers to keep the brass with minimal working. Same for the SMLE and #4.
So far it's worked for a half dozen reloads of cast so the pressures aren't super high.
Hope this helps a little.
Larry makes an excellent point about the depriming stem stopping the case on the inside ....
In fact while you are trying to get that pesky ring sized (reformed) down , just remove the stem ...and work without it .
Gary
Certified Cajun
Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
" Let's Go Brandon !"
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