SMLE 2A1 with tight chamber

[Led]

So a recently purchased SMLE 2A1 has been giving me extraction problems. Symptoms are stuck cases from some types of ammo, but not all. I assumed it was excessive headspace, but it turns out the headspace is tight. It will almost close on a forester 308 go gauge. I'm considering renting a pull through chamber reamer to open it up a few thousands. I'm looking for advice, tips and tricks before I proceed. I don't want to wreck the rifle.

Thanks,
Stephen

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Yours is an unusual complaint, as most owners seem to complain that the chambers are "sloppy" or "generous". It's pretty much been my personal experience that bolt actions that have tight head space usually aren't much of a problem at all, certainly not like excess head space. You say that some types of ammo don't stick. I'd determine what they are, buy more, and use it as is. When you're talking about opening the head space up "a few thousandths", a few can be the difference from just under to way over. If you're a reloader, try just neck sizing the cases that didn't stick and they'll probably continue to work o.k. I have more than a few Lee Enfields, No.1 and No.4, and have not owned a 2A1, but for the members of the breed that I am familiar with it isn't too hard to develop excess head space just by repeatedly using heavy loads. After a couple hundred standard loads your rifle's problem may solve it's problem itself.

DG

[indian joe]

This likely has nothing to do with anything but back in the olden days Aussies were not allowed to own a "military firearm" ....303 smellies were all over the place and dirt cheap cuz the average joe was banned from having one - the definition was strict - if the gun would chamber a round from a military firearm from anyplace on the planet - it was a "military firearm" and off to the pokey you went .......so a copper who wanted to cause the local citizenry some havoc would carry a standard mark 7 303 round - the workaround was to pull the barrel, turn one full thread off it and replace it, then put the loaded ammo through a forming die that moved the shoulder back a tad and we had a new calibre (I think called it a 7.7 x 54 mm ??) ................whatever the moniker the rifle would not chamber a standard issue mark 7 round - there wasnt much in it as most of the military chambers were big to start with ............there were more than just a few of these modifieds in circulation - maybe the OP has stumbled across one??????

[edp2k]

OP, are you sure that there is no lead, copper, fouling, or a piece of broken cartridge stuck in the chamber or neck?
Some kind of ring deposit in the throat?
Or maybe some rust?

[cwtebay]

OP, are you sure that there is no lead, copper, fowling, or a piece of broken cartridge stuck in the chamber or neck?
Some kind of ring deposit in the throat?
Or maybe some rust?

Strong 2nd!! Dried cosmoline, broken off case neck...etc, etc... would be the most common issue.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[RU shooter]

I believe those Indian made rifles in 7.62 had a chrome lined bore/chamber don't know how a reamer reacts to that hard surface ? I've owned a few of those and they normally had a generous chamber on them I'd get a brass brush and some fine steel wool and some oil and spin it in the chamber with a drill before I'd ream it just to see if it cleans up

[LawrenceA]

Change the bolt head to one of the right size perhaps.

[Led]

The chamber is clean. Albeit there might be some reamer chatter marks. I suppose giving it a good polish couldn't hurt for a first step. Recommendations? FYI, the bore is perfect. Ammo it likes is LC surplus from the 90's. This extracts fine. RG and Men both require a bump on the bolt handle. Interestingly, the bolt will unlock to the full up position just fine. It's withdrawing the brass from the chamber that's the issue.

Thanks,
Stephen

[Petrol & Powder]

It sounds like you are already on the right path. You don't want to wreck a good rifle. That is the correct state of mind.

I would make up a dummy round and smoke it so that the soot is on most of the dummy cartridge. Then as carefully as possible, insert the dummy cartridge into the chamber and close the bolt. Remove it carefully and inspect it.
If that doesn't help to narrow down the problem, consider a chamber casting.

This line from the OP makes one take caution, "Symptoms are stuck cases from some types of ammo, but not all." (emphasis added)

Because the rifle in question is a 2A1 and it will chamber some 308 Cartridges, I would be very reluctant to start removing metal.

The failure of the bolt to close on that Forrester chamber gage may be a red herring. You could have a bolt head or extractor issue that is preventing the bolt to close on that gage and mimicking a chamber issue.

I find it hard to believe that a surplus military rifle has a chamber that is too tight. Coupled with the information that it will chamber SOME cartridges, gives me great concern. Proceed carefully; it's a lot harder to put metal back on than to take it off.

[Outpost75]

Not specific to the Ishapore 2A, but it has been my experience that British Commonwealth 7.62 military rifles tend to have tight bore and groove dimensions and short chamber throats, which are dimensions for their 144-grain military ammunition in which the bullet diameter also runs small, typically .307-.3075 vs. .308-.3085 for US M80.

I do not know if the IOF and POF followed a similar manufacturing practice. Smoking and then chambering and inspecting dummy rounds is a good start, but better would be to measure a chamber cast and to check the bolt head to shoulder clearance dimension with headspace gages. If the headspace dimension is snug, changing the bolt head is a fix, but please don't modify your "long" bolt head, as it is worth its weight in gold and if you shoot the rifle alot with full charge loads you will surely need it before the barrel is shot out.

[country gent]

Start with a good cleaning with a new chamber brush followed by a bore cleaning. See if that helps. Next make a good chamber cast to get actual dimensions to measure and compare to loaded ammo. Use a magic marker in some problem rounds to see where they are off. Do not smoke loaded ammo. Pay attention to neck dia case oal lingth rhroat dia and leade both length and dia.

If the chamber is chromed as stated above a reamer will be ruined by it chrome is harder than the HSS reamer. Most of these chambers were cut so that when chromed they were to spec because of this. I believe most were whats known as flash chromed, this adds about .0003-.0005 thickness. This actually adds .0006-.001 to the chambers dias since the layer is on both sides.

If it chromed and tight head space it might be better to modify a die shell holder for the rifle. Remove .005-.010 from bottom of die or top of shell holder to allow it to bup shoulder back to match the chamber.

I would also measure and compare some fired cases ( these should be very close to actual chamber dimensions) to the sticky ones

[Led]

I need to clarify, it has chambered and fired all mil surplus and factory ammo I've tried. Accuracy has been very good. The types are LC, MEN, Cavim and a new box of Federal 150g FMJ sold as 308 Winchester.

When checking the headspace I removed the extractor. This isn't my first rodeo setting headspace. Smoking a case and checking the chamber strikes me as a good idea and will be the next stop. Other notes, I have a small selection of sized cases left over from 308 rifles I use to own. All were sized with an RCBS sizing die screwed into the press as far as it would go. None of these cases with chamber in the 2A1. I broke out the die and sized them again just to make sure and got the same result. I use to load for gas guns which are notoriously hard on brass which is why I always sized 308 to the minimum dimensions my die would do. I think the tight neck or throat idea has merit and I'll check on that tonight as well as smoking a case. What would be a good polish to use on the chamber?

Thanks,
Stephen

[Led]

They are hard to find these days. Numrich has them but doesn't allow size selection on their web site and no longer take phone orders.

Thanks,
Stephen

Change the bolt head to one of the right size perhaps.

[JoeJames]

Change the bolt head to one of the right size perhaps.

My thoughts too. Or if you have a 308 SB die, try that.

[Lloyd Smale]

tight chamber wont make extracting a round harder. A bullet jammed in the rifling, a case not trimmed enough for the chamber or a rough chamber or high pressure will. What tight chamber effects is a bullet going in the chamber not one comming out. If your gun will chamber and extract an empty case then look at those problems. If the problem is going in then a small base die would be a solution.

[Outpost75]

I need to clarify, it has chambered and fired all mil surplus and factory ammo I've tried. Accuracy has been very good. The types are LC, MEN, Cavim and a new box of Federal 150g FMJ sold as 308 Winchester...

I think the tight neck or throat idea has merit and I'll check on that tonight as well as smoking a case. What would be a good polish to use on the chamber? Thanks, Stephen

If your rifle has the undersized diameter ball seat, with little or no freebore prior to the origin of rifling, lapping or polishing is not going to do it. I would use a common SAAMI-dimensioned .308 Winchester reamer to cut a normal sporting chamber to clean up the tight spots.

[JoeJames]

If it chambers and fires all the factory stuff and milsurp, I think it is a tight chamber. Had the same problem with an AR chambered in 223 Wylde. Luckily I got a 556 case stuck in my rcbs sizing die; so had to get a Lee 223 (RGB?) die set. It is a small base die. Suddenly no problem. Before that I'd size and trim to min. trim spec, think it was cured, and then wham I'd have to get out the nylon hammer to extract it. I'd try that before I reamed it, for sure. By the way my reloads would go in ok, but then I'd try to extract without firing them = nylon hammer.

[Led]

Update, I smoked a couple of fired cases, actually used a magic marker, same difference and ran them into and out of the chamber. Upon inspection there appears to be a few burs, dried cosmoline or something about 1/4 inch in the chamber. It's in a location that I can't get a light on it. First plan is to get a worn out bore brush, wrap it with some 0000 steel wool, soak it with kroil and give it a quick spin with a drill. I will report back once this is done.

Thanks,
Stephen

[edp2k]

If its cosmo, pour some boiling water through it.
guaranteed not to hurt anything, of course wd-40 and clean-patch it out afterwards.

[Lloyd Smale]

If it chambers and fires all the factory stuff and milsurp, I think it is a tight chamber. Had the same problem with an AR chambered in 223 Wylde. Luckily I got a 556 case stuck in my rcbs sizing die; so had to get a Lee 223 (RGB?) die set. It is a small base die. Suddenly no problem. Before that I'd size and trim to min. trim spec, think it was cured, and then wham I'd have to get out the nylon hammer to extract it. I'd try that before I reamed it, for sure. By the way my reloads would go in ok, but then I'd try to extract without firing them = nylon hammer.

what happens in an ar is the spring pushing the bolt forward is strong enough to slam even a overside case into the chamber but doing so puts it in there so tight that the lame extraction capability of an ar just strips the extractor over the rim. I ran into that with my gredel. Starline brass was on the generous side of size and which my press set up to just bump the shell holder even with small base dies i had all kinds of extraction problems. Some extracted some half way extracted and some stayed right in the chamber. Not thinking right i figured right away gas pressure was the culprid and tried ajusting the adjustable gas block every way i could didnt cure it. Sent the upper back to psa and told them theres something wrong with it. They send it back saying wolf ran perfect in it but they put on a new gas block. Tried it again same thing. I didnt even contact them just sent it back again with kind of a nasty note. Again it came back with them saying it ran wolf perfectly. Then a light bulb went off in my head. I took off the upper and pulled the bolt and tried dropping i a round. It would go about half way and stop. Then i did what I should have done before i even shot it. I put a 20 round mag in it and just started wracking them out. Well at least i tried. first one came out second one jammed. so i guess Joe you are right in a way. A tight chamber could cause the same problem in an ar. But a bolt gun probably wouldnt close on something like that. Or close very hard. if it goes in easy it should come out easy. What I ended up doing is pulling all the ammo and resizing them again camming over the press hard enough to make things jump on the bench and it runs a 100percent like that. But an oversized round in a bolt gun will show its self when your try to close the bolt. Ive got a couple remington 700s with overly tight chambers that need small base dies to let me close the bolt. they wont work no matter how hard i cam over a standard set of dies. But if i take on not small base sized and pound the bolt closed and shoot it it extracts as easy as one i small base sized.