Ruger 44 Spl. cylinder, bore measured - How to proceed now?

[coopersdad]

I'd appreciate some guidance on how to proceed with my new Ruger Bisley Flattop .44 special. Bore slugs .429. The Oregon Trail bullets I have measure .4316 - 8 on my micrometer and won't fall through the cylinder throats, but will go with a finger push.

I've gotten OK accuracy so far, best groups 2 - 2.5" at 25 yards, using the Oregon Trail 240 gr. semiwadcutters and 6 - 7.5 gr. Unique. Ran out of them, but I have some of their round nose flat point, which haven't been as accurate.

The cylinder and barrel lead badly, it takes a long time to clean, and my groups deteriorate as the session goes on. Since bullet size seems OK, I've attributed this to hard lead and maybe the bevel-base bullets. I'd like to get better accuracy and less leading, so I need a mould. Seemed a good excuse to buy a set of pin gauges to get actual measurements. The results have prompted my questions.

I checked the barrel for thread crush restriction. .417 is a no-go. .416 enters the muzzle about 1 3/4" and stops (2" long gauges). .415 slides smoothly all the way through. So I scrubbed with bronze scrubber and Lyman polishing cloth several times, thinking I'd missed a bit of lead (can't see any). That didn't change anything, so it appears the muzzle end of the barrel is about .001 larger than the rest. I've heard a tapered bore can be good, but pretty sure that's backwards.


In the cylinder, a .432 pin goes through all, .433 won't. The .432 pin actually measures .4318, about what the bullets do.

There appears to be a burr of some sort a two of the mouths. In both, the pin, inserted from the rear, stops exactly at the end. In one I can give it a bit more push and it will go through, but tight. The other won't go past - might if I hammered on it but not gonna do that.

On both, I can see what appears to be a tiny dent, right at the edge, that has pushed a burr of steel into the throat. .431 pin goes through easily, so it isn't very big. I haven't dropped the cylinder or whacked it against anything that I recall, and I can't imagine causing that cleaning.

While a .432 reamer would be the best I'm sure, my initial thought is to remove the burr with a small very fine needle file, very carefully, a stroke or two, try the pin, stop when it passes, then polish a bit with fine paper on a dowel. Bad idea?

Then get a mould that drops at least .432 and see how it shoots with the barrel. It seems to have potential as it is. I don't know if firelapping would even that out? Or is that barrel issue something I should deal with Ruger immediately? I'm new to revolvers, at least getting the best from them, and most of what I know has come from here. Thanks for any advice!

[rkrcpa]

I would try a softer bullet sized to .431 and see how it goes. Oregon Trail bullets are awfully hard for 44 special speeds. Maybe try a good old fashioned Keith bullet?

[Thumbcocker]

If you have some liquid along or jpw you can tumble the rest of your boolits in that and try them. Then get softer fatter boolits


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[coopersdad]

I do want to try a softer bullet, likely a Keith style. I'd heard about tumble lubing harder ones, I have LLA and White Lightning 45-45-10, and I'll try that!

[Cosmic_Charlie]

If you are going to order a mold you might try Accurate Molds. He will make them the size you ask for. I powder coat my revolver boolits, get good accuracy and no leading. If your barrel gets bigger towards the muzzle the powder coating would help. Try some alloy around 10 bhn too.

[Dusty Bannister]

How many jacketed rounds have you fired through the revolver?

"Oregon Trail 240 gr. semiwadcutters and 6 - 7.5 gr. Unique."

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th ed. Lyman 240 grain swc (429667)
Unique 5.8 to 6.5 grains. Did you work up to this over the max load or just jump out in the middle and find leading to be an issue?

[DougGuy]

I'd appreciate some guidance on how to proceed with my new Ruger Bisley Flattop .44 special. Bore slugs .429. The Oregon Trail bullets I have measure .4316 - 8 on my micrometer and won't fall through the cylinder throats, but will go with a finger push.

I've gotten OK accuracy so far, best groups 2 - 2.5" at 25 yards, using the Oregon Trail 240 gr. semiwadcutters and 6 - 7.5 gr. Unique. Ran out of them, but I have some of their round nose flat point, which haven't been as accurate.

The cylinder and barrel lead badly, it takes a long time to clean, and my groups deteriorate as the session goes on. Since bullet size seems OK, I've attributed this to hard lead and maybe the bevel-base bullets. I'd like to get better accuracy and less leading, so I need a mould. Seemed a good excuse to buy a set of pin gauges to get actual measurements. The results have prompted my questions.

I checked the barrel for thread crush restriction. .417 is a no-go. .416 enters the muzzle about 1 3/4" and stops (2" long gauges). .415 slides smoothly all the way through. So I scrubbed with bronze scrubber and Lyman polishing cloth several times, thinking I'd missed a bit of lead (can't see any). That didn't change anything, so it appears the muzzle end of the barrel is about .001 larger than the rest. I've heard a tapered bore can be good, but pretty sure that's backwards.


In the cylinder, a .432 pin goes through all, .433 won't. The .432 pin actually measures .4318, about what the bullets do.

There appears to be a burr of some sort a two of the mouths. In both, the pin, inserted from the rear, stops exactly at the end. In one I can give it a bit more push and it will go through, but tight. The other won't go past - might if I hammered on it but not gonna do that.

On both, I can see what appears to be a tiny dent, right at the edge, that has pushed a burr of steel into the throat. .431 pin goes through easily, so it isn't very big. I haven't dropped the cylinder or whacked it against anything that I recall, and I can't imagine causing that cleaning.

While a .432 reamer would be the best I'm sure, my initial thought is to remove the burr with a small very fine needle file, very carefully, a stroke or two, try the pin, stop when it passes, then polish a bit with fine paper on a dowel. Bad idea?

Then get a mould that drops at least .432 and see how it shoots with the barrel. It seems to have potential as it is. I don't know if firelapping would even that out? Or is that barrel issue something I should deal with Ruger immediately? I'm new to revolvers, at least getting the best from them, and most of what I know has come from here. Thanks for any advice!

You could send the cylinder and have it honed, all throats would be consistent. Pretty common to have a burr at the cylinder face.

[DougGuy]

You could send the cylinder and have it honed, all throats would be consistent. Pretty common to have a burr at the cylinder face.

Ruger, MAY address the issue if you send it back to them, and tell them it doesn't group well, if it won't group for them with factory ammo, they will replace the barrel and cylinder on their dime. I wouldn't tell them it leads with cast, they aren't too crazy about handloads being fired in their guns, but tell them it doesn't shoot very well and the barrel has some taper in it and see what they say. It's worth a try before you do anything else. See what they send back then start over and see how it works then.

[Dusty Bannister]

As Doug Guy says, Ruger will test with factory and see if it groups or not. Try it yourself and save the time and postage.

[Led]

You could learn the black art of fire lapping a barrel. Bear Tooth bullets use to publish a how-to book on the topic. I've done it to several firearms. It can do wonders to accuracy and it can cut a crush restriction out of a revolver barrel.

Later,
Stephen

[Conditor22]

Clean ALL lead residue out of your barrel before sending it to Ruger.

[stubshaft]

I'm with the fire lap group AND you can try PC boolits.

[higgins]

If you decide to return it to Ruger ask them for a return label and save yourself many dollars in Fedex or UPS charges.

[coopersdad]

I did work up to the 7.5 gr. Unique "Skeeter" load. No signs of pressure.

The burrs on the mouths were removed with a fine file and polished, and the pins now go through as they do the other throats. Some are a bit tighter than others, but with the same pin.

I tumble lubed the Oregon Trail RNFP's and fired 40 of the them, trying 6 to 7.5 Unique to see if velocity changed. Not really, but leading was significantly less. A small bit from the forcing cone and about 2" of barrel, and a bit in the cylinder. Still more than I'd like but better. Accuracy is still not great, but these never showed the promise the SWC's did.

I ordered a mold from Accurate, what he catalogs as the 429421 clone, specifying at least .432 in 1-20 alloy, bhn 10. I'll work with it from there, and depending how it goes, consider having the cylinder honed by Mr. Guy, and perhaps firelapping. Powder coating would be yet another venture into the unknown!

I'd try factory ammo to see how it groups, but that is currently unobtainable. I did find a box of JHPs left over from a .44 mag I had 40 years ago. I'll try some of those and see what it does in comparison.

[Thumbcocker]

Let us know how it shoots with the boolits from your new mold.

[stubshaft]

Mine seems to do just fine with "Skeeters" load of 7.5 Unique and PC or regular lubed H&G style #503 boolits after fire lapping.

Attachment 272251Attachment 272252

[Dale53]

I have two of the Ruger .44 Special Flattops - one is the 5.5" blued one and one is a 4/58" SS one. Both of them show excellent accuracy (under 1" at 25 yards with my home cast bullets). I size at .430" and my "standard" alloy is WW's+2% tin. I have run my Mihec copy true copy of the H&G #503 and a Group Buy 200 gr. dbl ended W/C with similar results. My load with the 250 gr. is Skeeter's load (7.5 gr. of Unique) and the W/C it is 5.0 grs. of Red Dot for just under 900 fps (4.0 grs. makes a dandy target load).

Both of mine needed and got a trigger job (every Ruger I have ever owned needed a trigger job).

FWIW
Dale53