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Thread: Do you prefer slower and heavier, or lighter and faster?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    In 40 S&W I carry 200 gr XTP's loaded to slightly over 900 fps from a Glock M27 or a cast 200 gr at 930 fps from the M27 Glock. Use the same loads in a XDm 40 S&W too.
    In a 10 MM I carry 200 gr XTP's loaded to a higher velocity than the 40 S&W. Why not, if I wanted 40 S&W power I would use the 40 S&W.
    In a 45 Auto I carry 230 FMJFP or 230 grain cast FP.

    That is just what I do. To each his own.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Carry what shoots best for you in your firearm accuracy is king. a loud miss isnt as effective as a solid hit with anther round. I have carried 200 grn HPs in 45 for years from the speer flying ashtray to golden sabers. In 40 cal its 165 grns in 40 S&W and 180 grn Hydra shocks in 10 mm. 357 /38 is more dependent on gun, in true snubbies especially the ultra light weights its a 38spl +P with 125-135 grn in these even a 148 wadcutter may be good. in the larger guns I may go 140-158 grn. In the 32s I go with the heavier weights to aid penetration.

    One way to see what your getting is to hunt some small game like woodchucks and open them up after shooting see the damage caused, Ive shot chucks with most of the above and one thats a early hybrid defense round the Glasser saftey slug ( very devestating wound channels), Hydra shocks are also good,

    Do some testing and see what works for you

  3. #23
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    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downzero View Post
    Over penetration is a myth.

    The primary feature of a handgun bullet needed to make sure it works is to ensure it reliably has ENOUGH penetration.
    Having shot several deer with medium/lower speed SWC in 45 Colt in 1873 Old Army pistols its a myth I would not try to prove my standing on the other side of a deer when I shoot one with that type of load.

    The challenge of using most handgun cartridge's for self defense ensuring the quickest possible stop.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  4. #24
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    Since there isn’t any hard data that says one is better than the other, maybe an in between load would be best. However, when carrying a 44mag for brown bear protection, I always opted for the heaviest bullet available.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Do you prefer slower and heavier, or lighter and faster?

    Just like me: slow & heavy.

    Expansion is not always predictable and light, high velocity bullets deflect easily.

    This point was driven home to me by an instructor who’s an ex-LEO. He once shot a felon with a 9mm. The felon was almost 90 degrees to him. The bullet entered just under the collar bone, deflected down and exited on the far side of his abdomen, then completely penetrated his thigh.

    The damage? Bandages on all four holes (not even stitches) and released to police custody.

    A bullet with a big fat meplat at 800 fps (or slower) performs the same every time:
    cuts a a big hole and penetrates in a straight line.

    This is based on tests I witnessed live in bare gel after penetrating denim.

    As for over-penetration, the tests were almost all .38 special. Federal GMM wadcutters penetrated to almost exactly the same depth as the best-performing +P rounds (around 18”). +Ps that forgot to expand penetrated 24” or more.

    A 90-grain Super-Vel went about 5” before fragmenting.

    Allegedly, current consensus among the “experts” is with any handgun round from 9mm to .44 mag/.45 Colt, 2-3 rounds to the body are required to achieve a “stop”, hence, caliber is a mostly moot point.

    I kinda regret trading off my 325PD now. Loaded with low-velocity full wadcutters, it would’ve been da bomb for a night stand or maybe even carry gun.

    Of course, the best use of any handgun is to fight your way to a long gun.
    Last edited by Jtarm; 11-25-2020 at 04:12 PM.

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Penetration first and rate of displacement second.

  7. #27
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    IMO, you are right at the middle between the 40 and 10. I would call Speer and ask them what is the lowest velocity those were designed to open at. If they work in the 40 use them, if they are for a 10 use them there. With cast I prefer slow and heavy with jacketed fast and light. Over penetration is a real consideration there.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Win94ae's Avatar
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    I like to shoot whatever weight bullet, that gets to 1050fps. I then sight it in at 60 yards; whereas, all my handguns will have similar 0-100 yard exterior ballistics.

  9. #29
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    In a self defense situation, most likely you will be up close and personal so velocity really doesn't matter. I want something heavy, with knock down and stopping power.

  10. #30
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    For me, fat and slow. Carried a 1911 45 all my life.
    My son learned to shoot with a 1911, pretty good shot too.
    Then the PD issued a 40 to him, (they run a pretty hot load, so I'll call that smaller / faster). 40 always seemed "whippy" to me.
    The kid LOVES that Sig 40 ! Shoots it like a house afire ! Took high score at qual.
    I can't shoot it very well, REALLY nice gun though. The recoil impulse is all wrong for me.

    Cutting to the chase, what YOU shoot well is what you should shoot.
    We can argue all day about 9/40/45 (I love a good caliber war - I mean debate).
    All are 90+% stoppers with good ammo, placement is everything, hence shoot what you shoot best.
    But if you pick a 9, be ready for some ribbing. LOL
    Cogno, Ergo, Boom

    If you're gonna be stupid, don't pull up short. Saddle up and ride it all the way in.

  11. #31
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    I grew up , a student of the Elmer Keith train of thought and also liked what Jeff Cooper had to say about the 1911 45 acp as proper fighting iron .
    Large caliber , slow and heavy works for me .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  12. #32
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    Based on actual shooting percentages complied by Marshall and Sanow’s data in handguns the 125 grain JHP 357 has maintained it number one statue since the mid 70's.

    http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com...Statistics.htm

    http://www.themodernsurvivalist.com/archives/669

    https://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 11-25-2020 at 11:00 PM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  13. #33
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    When I read the title of this thread,, I was thinking; "He's talking about the choices of women that Rodney & I prefer. I like them lighter & faster,, and Rod is known for heavier & slower."

    Oh well, there's the chuckle for the thread!

    Seriously,, Study a lot of what has been posted in all the above posts. LOTS of excellent info and as noted,, there is not magic formula for all applications.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    I've heard that lighter bullets in pistols recoil more than heavier bullets, which is the opposite of what I've found to be true with rifles.
    Don't know where you heard that, but what you found with rifles applies to pistols. Heavier recoils more, and is quite evident by holes in target printing higher with heavier bullets than lighter ones.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    I generally prefer the sweet spot that the cartridges were developed for or slightly on the heavy side.

    124 to 140 for 9mm
    140 to 158 for .38 Special
    200 to 210 for 45 ACP
    180 to 200 for .300 Blackout.
    That covers about 90% of my shooting.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Idaho -

    Howdy !

    For years and years, the #1 one-shot manstopper per law enforcement derived data was the 125JHP Remington .357Mag load.
    The second place load was the 125JHP Federal .357Mag load. These eclipsed even the venerable .45ACP 225gr and 185JHP loads.
    The 125JHP load eclipsed the heavier 158SWC loads, as regarded dependable one-shot stops.

    425ft lb of energy is a fairly decent threshold for minimum energy. "Ball " .45ACP shot from a Govt model 1911 can give this level of energy.
    And while all top-rated .357Mag loads could exceed this level, things like .38Spl +P and 9mm+P struggled to come closer to this energy threshold. Also, notably.... these latter 2 cartridges were not highly ranked on ability to provide a one-shot stops.
    The 110JHP .357Mag load ranked higher on the list than those latter two.

    But..... ability to conceal a controllable .357Mag and more especially..... shoot it well..... makes the choice of going w/ a .357Mag problematic.
    With all of the above CCW performance data that's been accrued, the rise in popularity of the .40 S & W comes as no surprise.
    The .40 S & W is in large measure, basically a .38-40 updated for modern times. It occupies a space between the .357" cal and larger .45 cal. Popular .40S&W bullet weights also occupy a space between the 125gr .357" cal and 200gr & above bullet weights of the larger calibres. IMHO - this suggests the practical" answer " is.... a middle of the road calibre shooting a middle of the road bullet wt ( of proper design for self-defense ).
    And of course, there is now plenty of historical data to support the performance level of the .40 S & W used in a CCW. Not everybodies choice i realize ( not even mine ), but I understand why folks have gone w/ a .40 S & W.


    With regards,
    357Mag

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy memtb's Avatar
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    Heavy and slower......just like my hunting bullets. I want deep penetration, thereby contacting as much bone, organs, tissue as possible! If the target of affections is a 300 + pounder, wearing a heavy leather vest/jacket.......I want the bullet penetrating to and beyond the “sweet-spot”! If I could be guaranteed that my target would be a underweight individual wearing only a tee shirt....I may feel differently! Though many may not agree, I feel that ft/lbs. energy, especially at handgun velocities.....is far overrated. memtb
    Last edited by memtb; 11-26-2020 at 11:14 AM.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

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    Something bigger than a 380 and heavier than 115 grains for me.

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmortell View Post
    pretty sure this is one of the best user friendly data sets ever.
    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...ic-tests/#40SW
    https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/10m...tic-gel-tests/

    the 200gr might be made for 10mm speeds far as expansion goes since there werent any in the 40 test maybe someone knows what there designed for ?
    Great information. Thanks!!
    Don Verna


  20. #40
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    The way I look at it is if it's a HP design assume it won't expand and base your decision on that .
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check