I don’t get the infatuation with powder coat and hi tech

[brewer12345]

I started powder coating because my favorite revolver leaded horribly with tumble lubed or conventionally lubed bullets. I was a convert right away. The guns stay cleaner, the bullets are forgiving, and I see no difference in accuracy.

[Big Boomer]

Started out reloading and using jacketed bullets but that got too costly in a hurry on my salary back in the mid-'70s. Had free wheel weights given to me by the 5-gallon bucket so I put my dollars into casting boolits and sizing on a Lyman 450 using whatever lube I could find, all beeswax based. Finally developed my own concoction then transitioned to FWFL and some red lube that I started using in a Star sizer I acquired. Still have a big box of those lubes all made up but they're not likely to spoil. Every time I would lube up a bunch of boolits and let them fall from the heated Star, the falling boolits with soft lube in the grooves would invariably cause the falling boolits to hit the lube in the lube groove of the boolits they struck and everything was sticky with lube. Then a couple of years ago I discovered p/cing and all the sticky and smoke is gone. I'm not interested in colors so I opted for Smoke's clear and never looked back. My boolits just look like regular cast boolits except they are shiny and slick. Still use the Stars (picked up another along the way) for sizing but do not have to heat & use the lube any more. It may be just a matter of preference for some of us and I intend to test all my calibers, handguns and rifles, plain lubed, p/ced with lube, and just plain p/ced just to see what the difference may be. Wife's surgeries and recuperation have put a kink in my time at the range but I'll got 'er done eventually if I live long enough. Big Boomer

[Bwana John]

The only caliber I powder coat for is .310 Cadet.

The powder coat solves the icky-sticky problem of the external lube groove.

It also allows me to use the softest lead available so the heeled bullet can easily obturate, without any leading in the bore.

[dtknowles]

For rifle, where you're shooting far slower, there's probably not much time savings. On rifle, 60 rounds is a long day at the range. I still pan lube some of my .45 cowboy loads, because the time savings is negligible for 48 rounds.

But for pistol, where I'll go through several hundred rounds, at least, in a couple hours at the range, it's definitely a time saver. If I bring the kids with me, I can easily go through 500+ handgun rounds in a couple hours.

Coating 20lbs of 9mm gives me 1k+ rounds lubed in under an hour (5lbs per batch, 1 minute shake x 4 batches, 8 mins on top of the oven to warm for the first batch, 8 mins per batch cook time x 4 with the next batch warming on top of the oven while each cooks = ~45 minutes). If I want to double coat, it takes about 90 minutes, since I recoat as soon as they cool, while the next batch is still in the oven.

I can put 1k rounds through a push through die in about 15-20 minutes. So, all told, around 2 hours for 1k rounds ready to load. How long does it take you to put 1k rounds through your lube sizer?

Also how much does the lube add to your per-round cost? The Hi-Tek is under a hundredth of a penny per round.

They don't stick, they don't smoke, they're fast to make in bulk, they're cheap, and you can store them forever.

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Do the math, 1K in 20 minutes is faster than one per second.

[RKJ]

For me it keeps the mess down. I still size mine in a Lyman 4500 and have Lar's lube if I need it, but I don't see me going back to lube unless I have to. I like PC a lot, but I'm not going to try to persuade or convert anyone.

[John McCorkle]

Pc is great for some, I tend to like it more that tumble lube....I don't have the lube sizing equipment so shake and bake pc lubing and tumble lube make up my repertoire...

I find I can get higher pressure loads with softer alloy with good pc than I can with other lubes. In general it seems to give more tolerance to all the variables that can plague cast boolits.

Maybe one day I'll get into lubesizer but I have enough experimenting to do with what I have to keep me busy for a long long time..add paper patching as a new skill to master and it'll be a while before I need to add another tool to the toolkit

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[Budzilla 19]

The only way I will go back to lubing is if can’t get any more pc powder for some reason or other! The only lube I use now is BLL, which I overcoat factory swaged or cast boolits. I don’t dislike lubing, especially since BLL was developed, but for me, powder coat is where I’m at now! I like the different color selections, but the clear works best, both in coating thickness, and, performance. Just my opinion. Hell, sometimes I’ll even overcoat the powder coat, it’s a hobby, after all, so I’m going to have fun. Be safe out there!

[ryanmattes]

Do the math, 1K in 20 minutes is faster than one per second.

1000/60=16.66 minutes

And it doesn't take a second in a push through die.

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[megasupermagnum]

The sizing argument has been done over many times. There is no argument to be had with respect to time spent to complete a bullet. Bullets can be lubed/sized with wax faster than they can be coated/baked, then sized. By that same argument, tumble lubing is painfully slow because it can take over night to dry. That's not the whole story though. Tumble lubing for example you can shake bullets in a cup in 60 seconds, and then you walk away with no more effort until they are dry. Baking bullets is not a very manual operation either. Some simply enjoy baking bullets more than turning a screw for lube. There's a fast way to do all three methods, so do whichever you enjoy the most.

[dtknowles]

1000/60=16.66 minutes

And it doesn't take a second in a push through die.

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I guess maybe you could do one per second, I doubt I could and I know I wouldn't. I am not that rushed when I am making bullets. I am much slower than that sizing bullets. My bullets are not messy. I stack them neatly in boxes as I size them. I don't have to wipe their bases or noses unless I crank the lube screw out of sequence. I think that powder coat might be wonderful for some people. Some people who do it seem to be sort of extreme in their positions on the issue. I find nothing wrong with lubesized bullets. I have shot a lot of them but I don't shoot a lot each year. For me a thousand is a lot of bullets. In regards to the cost of a lubrisizer. I can sell either of mine for more than I paid for them and I bought one new but that was in 1974. I feel powder coating is a solution to a nonexistent problem, just another way to skin the cat.

I like that casters try new things. It is good to push new ideas but not all old ideas a bad.

Regarding "And it doesn't take a second in a push through die." Do you know that a Star Lubrisizer is a push thru sizer? If you can do one a second in a Lee die you can do one a second or at least one every other second in a Star, you don't have to powder coat it and it comes out lubed ready to load.

I think powder coating is a good innovation. It might even be better is some ways.

Tim

[44Blam]

1000/60=16.66 minutes

And it doesn't take a second in a push through die.

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20 minutes is 1200 secs... I like to use those red lee containers, so I do about 3-400 and I have to dump it.

But it really doesn't take long to size PC'd boolits, for me it is like maybe 500 in 20 minutes. Not sure - I usually do that kind of thing while I'm waiting on something. Like I put a batch in the oven to PC, I size the previous batch and start PCing the next batch that goes into the oven...

[44Blam]

The other thing about PC becides it being a lot less messy is if you have to pull boolits. I recently got gifted a box of 45-70 cartridges. Some loaded, some empty cases... ONE case with a head seperation. So, in general, I won't shoot someone else's reload but I sure as hell am not going to shoot someone's hand load that is in the same box as a case with a seperated head... Just sayin'.

I pulled all of those boolits and the powder looked like H4198. But it is "unknown" and will be used for flaming up my driveway or making the grass look better. But the boolits were lubed and that lube grabbed a lot of powder when it got dumped into the puller. Now I'm gonna have to make sure that all that powder is out of the gummy lube before I drop the boolit into a pot to melt.

[bmortell]

really just depends what you already have. to me PC wins money wise because i already owned everything i needed besides the powder itself and a bag of powder lasts an awful long time. after im done casting shaking powder on is no effort, baking downtime i use for post casting cleanup. then back to the house and pop em through a lee size die. so to me a lube-sizer even at used prices seems like a waste of money when i can make thousands for 20 bucks of powder with commonly owned items. so its not hard to see either as a solution to a non existent problem

[M-Tecs]

PC bullet smoke a lot less and you can push them harder with less fouling issues. If neither one of those are issues for your application than not much benefit in PC.

[303Guy]

I don't powder coat - yet. I am under the impression that powder coating would work for me in place of paper patching. I need to fatten the boolits I have. Paper patching for range shooting isn't all that appealing but for field use it is. So, I'm interested in powder coating for rifles for target shooting. I think I can achieve similar results with hot dip lubing. My hot dip lube is like a lacquer and increases the boolit size but it's not a bulk proposition. It's a one at a time procedure. That's what I'm playing around with at the moment anyway. I only have to have fun.

[Lloyd Smale]

no leading and a MUCH cleaner gun. Whats not to like.

[dogdoc]

Interesting replies. I get the less smoke but I usually shoot outdoors so not a big concern for me. I have had some bullets oxidize during storage. No sticky bullets is nice as well. I have had lubrisizers since the early 1980s so I have not considered cost but that is a valid point. Still it is a more complicated process than one and done lubrisizing and even just coating with lla after sizing in a lee push thru. The problems I have had have been with too hard bevel based commercial high tech handgun bullets with fouling/leading (improper sizing often as well). The same problems As well with traditional hard lube commercial bullets. I solve them wIth lla on the bullets. When time allows, I prefer to cast my own flat based traditional handgun bullets at bhn 12 to 15 and size/lube. No problems with those. Powder coating is different and may work better than high tech for me. I may try it at some point. I may be crazy but I like the smell of burning 50/50 Alox lube.
Heading to deer stand with my Smith 44 loaded with my Lyman 429421 sized and lubed! Hope to test bullet performance this am!

[dale2242]

Call me old fashioned. I am.
I have never powder coated. I have never tumble lubed.
I started casting in the early 60s.
I started with an RCBS lube/sizer and NRA 50/50 lube.
I haven`t worn out the lube/sizer and have several pounds of 50/50 lube I bought cheap on S&S.
Yes 50/50 lube smokes and is somewhat sticky.
I am not bothered by the smoke. All my shooting is done outdoors.
I stack all my sized/lubed bullets on end in cardboard or plastic containers so messy isn`t an issue.
Oxidation has never been an issue with my cast bullets and I have some that have been stored for a LONG time.
I have no reason to change to powder coating since I am OK with the equipment and lube I am using.
If powder coating is the way to go for you, more power to you. To each his own.
I am sticking with conventional lube/sizing.

[AlHunt]

I find lube/size messy. Even tumble lube leaves sticky fingers. Some of Smokes colors cover very, very well in 1 pass. Translucent Copper works well and looks great. I use the shake and bake method and bake them in a big pile so it's almost effortless.

But, to each their own. I don't care how another person handles their bullets.

[Static line]

I started with the lube/sizers and have two of them. Have a good supply of lubes from LARS on hand. All my bullet molds are made to drop my bullets big and all my sizing dies are such to give me .002" over groove diameter. My understanding is that PC'ing is best done with tumble lube type grooves in the bullets, which none of mine are. All this stuff will have to collect dust if I start PC'ing and equals more money wasted. I do however wish I would have known about PC'ing when I started because it does sound like the best way to go. BUT, none of this matters if primers don't start coming back on our shelves. So unless all the planets line up in our favor, I am not going to invest in another rabbit hole.