Help with .45 ACP 200gr RNFP

[Cattleman406]

Howdy, you may remember me from my post a couple days ago about the .38/44 loads.
Im admittedly a tad out of my wheelhouse when it comes to any 45 auto load besides the tried and true 230 grainer over 5 grains of Bullseye. A couple months ago I picked up some 200 gr RNFP from SNS casting. I used the only 200gr data i could find which was for a SWC, and laddered the load from 4.2-4.6 grains of Bullseye. They all seemed a bit hot, although primers weren't flattened and there were not any other outward pressure signs. The 200gr had been touted to me as a great option for a lower-recoil load and these all seemed on the same level, if maybe slightly more, than a 230. (Not that im recoil sensitive, but I'd like my girlfriend or my little sister to shoot my 1911 without developing a flinch).
Am I doing something wrong here? Possibly the wrong OAL? I've been seating right up to the crimp groove, (because they're also advertised for 45 LC loads as well, but sized to .452). Too much crimp? I'm baffled here. Pic of projectile attached.

[tazman]

Have you run any of your loads over a chronograph?
While I don't have that identical boolit, I use the Lee 200 grain RNFP which looks much the same. I seat them to the crimp groove and use whatever the book calls for when using maximum loads.
For light recoiling loads, I use 3.8-4.0 of Bullseye. It functions my pistols(Springfield 1911 and an XDm) and gives great accuracy. Very mild recoil.
Don't load a lot of them until you have tested for function.

[Petrol & Powder]

The measure of, "They all seemed a bit hot...", may not be the best yardstick.

A 200 grain bullet with 4.6 grains of Bullseye behind it shouldn't be a problem.

[DougGuy]

I used the only 200gr data i could find which was for a SWC

You can easily get into an over pressure event by doing this without comparing the difference in case volume from one boolit to another. This means that if published data is for a boolit with .200" of the boolit down into the case, the boolit you are comparing to would need to be seated to the same depth in the case OR your published data should NOT be used without compensating for the difference in case volume.

If the 200gr SWC boolit base is .200" down in the case and your 200gr RNFP is .240" down in the case, then case volume is decreased considerably and pressures can skyrocket. This may explain your "they all seemed a bit hot" comment.

Also, any autoloader picks up the top round in the magazine and strips it from the magazine and feeds it into the chamber. It's fairly easy for boolit setback to occur in feeding, depending on type of crimp and amount of crimp, case neck tension, etc, in this event, the boolit is shoved farther down into the case as the boolit strikes the feed ramp, and the same over pressure event can occur and pressures can skyrocket. If this happens, it is quite possible to experience what we call a KB, where pressure blows out the case which then ignites the rounds in the magazine causing the gun to explode in the shooter's hands as the rounds in the magazine light off, wooden grips are especially nasty as splinters are often driven into the palms of the shooter.

So.. This is to emphasize how important it is to make sure you figure out where the base of the boolit sits in the case when extrapolating load data to use with a different boolit. REGARDLESS where the crimp groove is.

45 ACP needs a taper crimp right onto the side of a boolit most don't utilize a crimp groove at all, I would suggest seating to just the edge of the crimp groove so you can taper crimp, then measure how deep the boolit sits in the case and compute any differences with your published data for a 200gr SWC, THEN see if this round will "plunk" in your barrel. Unless your barrel has sufficient freebore, it probably won't plunk but you won't know until you try with a dummy.

I would also suggest using a RNFP with no crimp groove if you are planning on using it in 45 ACP.

[onelight]

I order that bullet Hi-Tek coated 2000 at a time and it works great in both colt and acp .
I work up my load starting with the longest OAL that will plunk test in all my barrels / cylinders and check fit in magazines . Start at the bottom I am looking for the lightest load that will fully cycle the pistols so plan on the bottom loads not working so stick to small runs of 5 to 10 rounds when you find a load that fully cycles load up 50 to give a more serious accuracy and reliability test the only hazard is sticking a bullet in the barrel so pay attention and bring what you would need to clear it . but you now have a safe minimum load for your guns with those components and can adjust powder charge up to suite your purpose for velocity and accuracy. Log all the details and you won't have to do all that again with those components in those guns.
May not be the the best procedure but it works for me.

[mehavey]

Seated to the Plunk OAL (what is that OAL?)...

... you'd be very hard-pressed to be anywhere even
near over pressure w/ 200gr RNFP/5gr of Bullseye
(profile notwithstanding)

[onelight]

Seated to the Plunk OAL (what is that OAL?)...

... you'd be very hard-pressed to be anywhere even
near over pressure w/ 200gr RNFP/5gr of Bullseye
(profile notwithstanding)

It's the one that works in the gun it will be fired in . In my experience if it plunks in my tightest barrel it will work in the rest also. I am not talking the best you can do match ammo this is for bulk loaded ammo that will work in a variety of guns think WW white box

[mdi]

My Lyman 49th has two listings for 200 cast SWC. One is for a bullet that appears closer to the H&G 68 clone and the other looks like a Lyman design (but I ain't no expert). The H&G load of Bullseye is 3.5-5.6 (the other is 4.9-6.0). Try the lighter load of Bullseye. I have gone light in my 1911 down to misfeeds with no real problems (except soot)...

[Old School Big Bore]

If your 1911 has been throated, that boolit should feed OK. You can do the plunk test without cycling the rounds through the gun, just start with the longest OAL that will fit in your magazines, stand the disassembled barrel on the bench and drop the round into the chamber. If the round sits flush to the back of the hood, you're good. Then see if the round will cycle from the mag to the chamber in the assembled gun. When all that is kosher, load a ladder with five-round sets and take it to the range to see which step of the ladder will run the gun. That will depend on the smoothness of your action and which recoil spring you have. Then out of the functional loads, make twenty to fifty of each step and do an accuracy test.
I locked in about half a grain of W231/HP38 above the lowest charge that would function my 1911, because I was hunting for the lowest recoil I could find for our 50-round match, to reduce fatigue through the match. You might want to try some fast powders other than bullseye - 231, titegroup, 700X, clays etc. Your accuracy load may be one of those. My particular 1911 likes just about any boolit, but the SWCs feed well and are really accurate in it, and they make a much cleaner hole in the target which ensures some doofus doesn't score my target by the smaller hole from the meplat of a TC or RF. Magnus and other boolit sources offer coated/plated versions of the SWC match boolits and you might try some of them when you run out of the TCs - they aren't ubiquitous in the 1911 world for nothing. If my 45 revolvers are any indication, your LC and AutoRim guns will also like the SWCs.
Ed <><

[onelight]

The good thing about starting a load work up for a particular bullet with a load so light it barely cycles is you have a starting place you know is safe . I find autos extremely difficult to judge max loads a chronograph tells you much but when you see signs of over pressure on auto pistol cases you are already in the danger range. Starting at the absolute bottom allows you to work up to good safe loads because you are starting with a load you know is safe in your gun with the components you are using. You guys with a lot of experience may be able to take some shortcuts , but there are so many variables unless you use the exact components in the manual. The book gives you a good educated guess on where to start but you also need experience to for it to be an educated guess.
You gain an important part of this experience starting at the bottom and paying attention to details and function.
I have loaded starting loads a few times from manuals that were to hot ! It's good to have multiple sources for data to compare you may find printed data that has errors.

[VariableRecall]

My Brother, GalvinGround, has has pretty good success with 200gn SWC's. They have no crimp groove, but the boolits are all seated a little above the edge of OAL. He plunk-checks every reloaded cartridge with his barrel loose out of the firearm. Using around 4.8 grains of Win231, he hasn't had any malfunctions and a clean powder burn, and the slide caught every time when empty. 5.1 grains lead to bits of powder remaining in the barrel and other components.

[mdi]

In my previous post I wasn't trying to change the subject to SWC, I wanted to say I'd use the same data for your 200 gr. RNFP. Meant to say I would start with the loads for the 68 clone for the RNFP...