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Thread: Stretching the case

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


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    Stretching the case

    Just read the thread "Stretching the .44 Magnum Case" on here. Made a lightbulb come on.

    Seems as if I read in George Nonte's book, "Cartridge Conversions" that he used a method to lengthen cases by rolling them under pressure with a mandrel. Got to go back and research that soon as I find my book. Seems to me that we should be able to do this to form shot cases for some of the shorter rounds we're tinkering with for shot loads. It would diminish case strength somewhat but most of the shot loads are fairly mild anyway. The .45 ACP and 9mm come to mind.
    Any thoughts on this?/beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by beagle View Post
    Just read the thread "Stretching the .44 Magnum Case" on here. Made a lightbulb come on.

    Seems as if I read in George Nonte's book, "Cartridge Conversions" that he used a method to lengthen cases by rolling them under pressure with a mandrel. Got to go back and research that soon as I find my book. Seems to me that we should be able to do this to form shot cases for some of the shorter rounds we're tinkering with for shot loads. It would diminish case strength somewhat but most of the shot loads are fairly mild anyway. The .45 ACP and 9mm come to mind.
    Any thoughts on this?/beagle
    That would be great, I've really wanted a brass option to try for use in 9mm...a 9mm shot she'll I could load without the price of speer capsules would be amazing

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Bwana John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John McCorkle View Post
    That would be great, I've really wanted a brass option to try for use in 9mm...a 9mm shot she'll I could load without the price of speer capsules would be amazing

    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...mm-shot-shells

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


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    I dug up the article last night and skimmed through it. Doesn't look like it would lend its application to our needs. He was "stretching" big straight walled cases with a lot of brass. Getting at max 1/2" of length.
    We're looking at basically 9mm and .45 ACP and the brass just isn't there for any appreciable length. Several other ideas I'm looking at in the book as well.
    I grew up with a M1911 in hand back in the 60s. I've shot (sacrilege) the various "survival" shot loads put out by the military over the years and tried the RCBS method, Still, no joy but I keep thinking about it and trying new things to achieve the goal of easy .45 and 9mm shot loads./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Bwana John's Avatar
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    Have you tried 9mm Win Mag brass?

    https://www.starlinebrass.com/9mm-win-mag-brass

    You couldn't get 308 to 45acp shot shells to work?
    I used the 41 mag die method and was kinda shocked how well it worked. There was some trial and error, but I never thought that I would be able to load a full mag with them and have them feed, chamber, fire, extract, eject, and reload until the mag was empty as well as they do!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    Haven't messed with in a couple of years now. Tried the RCBS set and achieved some success but never got the results that I wanted on a continuing basis. Haven't tried the 9mm but it's in the same category as the .45 ACP. Really not a show stopper as I have .45 Colt, .44 Mag and .357 shot loads to fall back on.

    Just hate it when a project beats me./beagle

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwana John View Post
    Have you tried 9mm Win Mag brass?

    https://www.starlinebrass.com/9mm-win-mag-brass

    You couldn't get 308 to 45acp shot shells to work?
    I used the 41 mag die method and was kinda shocked how well it worked. There was some trial and error, but I never thought that I would be able to load a full mag with them and have them feed, chamber, fire, extract, eject, and reload until the mag was empty as well as they do!
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy gnappi's Avatar
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    What a re you all using shotshells for?

    I've shot at snakes from 6 feet with a S&W 629 (Speer shotshell capsules #9 shot) and TC (with choke and hot shots) .44's and never hit the snake, or if it hit, so few pellets did that the snake slipped away. The "pattern" was so bad at anything further than a couple of feet I'd have needed to stuff the bbl in its mouth to kill it.
    Regards,

    Gary

  8. #8
    Boolit Master chutesnreloads's Avatar
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    What gnappi said..... Learned a long time ago the muzzle blast will take a snake's head off without getting close enough to get bit.
    Doesn't matter if the bullet hits him or not

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy gnappi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chutesnreloads View Post
    What gnappi said..... Learned a long time ago the muzzle blast will take a snake's head off without getting close enough to get bit.
    Doesn't matter if the bullet hits him or not
    Funny you mentioned that, once that's almost EXACTLY what happened with a JHP, the moccasin's head was held on my a snip of skin and STILL it somehow got back in the bush... dunno if the bullet actually did it!
    Regards,

    Gary

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    For 44 mag I have been very happy with .303 Brit cases cutting them to just under cylinder length (they do not chamber in my Contender) the rim needs to be thinned and made a bit narrower but I get a full 180 grains (.4 oz.) in the case.
    I have wondered IF a .223 Rem case might work for .357 Magnum ? It would need to be pushed out or have a rim added ?????

    To eliminate leading I use wraps of wax paper to hold shot it works rather well and is shredded by rifling.
    The .303 brit cases I used were Berdan I drilled and counterbored the head to fit a 209 shot shell primer 11 firings on one case primer still tight.
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master



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    45 Win Mag and 9mm Win Mag

    or 308 and 223

    Lots of fun

    Mike
    NRA Benefactor 2004 USAF RET 1971-95

  12. #12
    Boolit Master


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    Okay, snake story time is it? Had a buddy several years back that was a Class III nut. Had a H&K and was out in the boonies and encountered a rattle snake in a patch of grass about 5 feet square and maybe grass was a foot high. Said, Aha! Some fun. Put three 30 round mags of 9mm in the grass patch and went forward to recon with a long stick. Got close and the rattler still rattled at him. He never lived that down. Maybe he needed some shot loads????
    True story./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    For a snake load, forget the shot capsuls and use a gas check over powder and one in the case mouth.crimp it and some elmers glue.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Much as I enjoy making handgun shotloads, I see no reason for using any thing other than #12 or possibly #11 shot in them. I'm never going to try to hunt small game with them, and pattern density is what kills (or at least stops) Mr. No Shoulders.

    A CCI .22 Long Rifle shot load with #12 has been a better snake load than any of the factory handgun loads with bigger shot, in my experience.

    Truthfully, my grandma's garden hoe worked just as well.

    Robert

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    Amen on the hoe. When I was in the Army, we were equipped with ,38 Special Smiths. I had a M34 Kit gun at the time and carried it when in the field (I was the 1SG and no one looked at what was in my holster). I also carried a packet of CCI shot loads. I've killed a bunch of copperheads with that gun. Some of the pilots carried the CCI .38 Special loads and one of them killed the biggest copperhead I've ever seen in the platoon headquarters tent one night./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Funnily enough, it was the CCI .38 Special shot load that disillusioned me about commercial centerfire shot loads. IIRC they contain 7½ shot, and not a lot of it.

    The day I got my household goods shipment after I retired from the Navy, I had to clean out an outbuilding to store the boxes that wouldn't fit in the house. Wouldn't you know, my mom found a five foot long patterned snake in the shed. After getting her out of the way, (and quieted down) it took two shots to disable said snake, and I still had to finish it with a shovel.

    Don't know what type of snake it was, but it wasn't a blacksnake.

    Any that I have since done with a .22 is at least anchored with the first shot, admittedly none have been that big.

    #6 to #9 shot work fine if it is delivered from a real shotgun with at least a ½ ounce payload.

    Robert

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Guys,

    You got to use Enough Shot! I load snake loads for my .38 Specials the .357, .41, .44 and my shot loads are #6 or #7.5 shot. I put a gas check cup up over the powder, dump shot and put a gas check cup down atop the shot and roll crimp.

    I live in rattler and copperhead country. I never used #12 loads as I had no reason to quit what worked for me. Every rattler I shot tied himself in knots and died within 10 to 15 feet of being shot.

    Adam
    Last edited by Adam Helmer; 12-27-2020 at 02:46 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I was in field looking down on a pair of sunglasses that had come from a stolen car we were recovering. The officer who was with me that day had warned me to wear boots as we were going to be in snake territory so I was carrying a S&W model 60 charged with Speer shot capsules full of #12 shot. I was bent over getting the best look I could when my side vision picked up movement from my left side. Glancing over that way I saw a snake (variety didn't matter, I hate them all!) making his way toward me. I started backing away from the glasses at a steady pace. Mr. Snake got the the glasses and made a quick right-turn straight toward me. He was moving faster than I was and closed the distance between us. When he got within 7-8 feet from me I opened up. Have you ever heard a revolver go off full-auto? Mine did. The first 4 shots sounded like one! As trained I checked to the left, then right and saw no more threats. Since I had to reload anyway I got very close to the snake's head and gave it the last shot "just in case." That shot was not needed. At the sound of the first shot the snake was completely dead and still. No movement, not even a muscle contraction. As for that friend with me - he claimed he almost jumped out of his boots (or did something unsanitary) from all the noise I made. I am sure he remembers that day as well as I do.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    The CCI shotshells in 38 Spcl, 44 Spcl and 45 Colt have worked well for me. All I have used have factory #9 shot. I have also loaded the Speer capsules with #11 shot for the .38 which works better for getting a pellet in the brain of the snake, shutting them down. Can't say I've had any real failures over 45-50 rattlers. Even used the little .22 shotshells on a few without trouble. Mostly distance was 6-8 ft. A hoe or shevel works well but a 2" .38 carries better when walking or doing other work (fixing fence).

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check