Remington 788 30-30 disappointment

[dtknowles]

I think you are running into the RPM threshold. A too soft bullet will not shoot accurately if you twist it too hard. Also you need to reduce the jump to the rifling to as small a distance as possible. I prefer to shoot cast bullets jammed into the rifling. Bore riding bullets need to have the bore riding nose to be in contact with the lands. You don't tell us what your land and groove dimentions are for this new rifle and how long of a jump to the rifling you are setting. 1 to 10 is way more twist than you need for a 170 gr. bullet at 2000 fps. Your rifle design is not good for a hunting rifle where you want to use a soft bullet at reasonable hunting rifle velocities. I suggest you trade it off to someone how will shoot j words and look for a more appropriate gun.

Tim

[MarkW]

Hi there, a little late to the party here but I was wondering if you have tried shooting jacketed bullets out of it and what have been the results? Also, I may have missed it but have you slugged your barrel?

My approach at this point would be to find some 170 grain jacketed bullets and get them shooting well, if you can't get them to shoot then there's probably a gun issue somewhere. Get that sorted out then pick a 170 grain cast bullet and try working up the same load and see where that goes.

Good luck!

Mark

[Eddie Southgate]

Send it to JES to be rebored to 38-55 and rifled appropriately for cast . Problem solved and you will likely be the only kid on the block with a 38-55 788 .

[mjac]

Also you need to reduce the jump to the rifling to as small a distance as possible. I prefer to shoot cast bullets jammed into the rifling. Bore riding bullets need to have the bore riding nose to be in contact with the lands.

Agreed and loaded as such.

You don't tell us what your land and groove dimensions are for this new rifle and how long of a jump to the rifling you are setting. 1 to 10 is way more twist than you need for a 170 gr. bullet at 2000 fps.

No jump.

Your rifle design is not good for a hunting rifle where you want to use a soft bullet at reasonable hunting rifle velocities. I suggest you trade it off to someone how will shoot j words and look for a more appropriate gun.

That is hard to read and if it proves to be true it will be even harder to accept. With no disrespect, I sincerely hope you are wrong.

[mjac]

Hi there, a little late to the party here but I was wondering if you have tried shooting jacketed bullets out of it and what have been the results? Also, I may have missed it but have you slugged your barrel?

My approach at this point would be to find some 170 grain jacketed bullets and get them shooting well, if you can't get them to shoot then there's probably a gun issue somewhere. Get that sorted out then pick a 170 grain cast bullet and try working up the same load and see where that goes.

Good luck!

Mark

Shot with 160g Hornady FTX Leverevolution ammo to sight in a trusted scope and again after firing >200 cast boolits.
The Rifle shoots these J words very well, much better than cast.

Thank you.

[dtknowles]

Agreed and loaded as such.

No jump.

That is hard to read and if it proves to be true it will be even harder to accept. With no disrespect, I sincerely hope you are wrong.

I wish you success, did not mean any disrespect either. In an effort to help you find that gun's rpm threshold I would suggest that you try a hard alloy like BHN 20 or so and a velocity of 1800 fps to see if it will shoot that accurately. If it does you could try softer alloys until accuracy degrades. if the accuracy holds up you could then increase the velocity until accuracy degrades. Shorter bullets and bullets with more bearing surface can handle the rpm better. Long noses and short bodies will produce worse accuracy. It is a balancing act and if you have to settle for 1800 fps with a alloy soft enough to mushroom that is still good enough to hunt out to 100 yards.

Tim

[mjac]

I wish you success, did not mean any disrespect either. In an effort to help you find that gun's rpm threshold I would suggest that you try a hard alloy like BHN 20 or so and a velocity of 1800 fps to see if it will shoot that accurately. If it does you could try softer alloys until accuracy degrades. if the accuracy holds up you could then increase the velocity until accuracy degrades. Shorter bullets and bullets with more bearing surface can handle the rpm better. Long noses and short bodies will produce worse accuracy. It is a balancing act and if you have to settle for 1800 fps with a alloy soft enough to mushroom that is still good enough to hunt out to 100 yards.

Tim

Thank you. I am working with my supplier to determine the hardness of the boolits I have and if need be, getting something harder.

Laissez les bons temps rouler

Mike

[MarkW]

Send it to JES to be rebored to 38-55 and rifled appropriately for cast . Problem solved and you will likely be the only kid on the block with a 38-55 788 .

Many moons ago I fiddled with a 788 magazine to see if it would be able to feed the straight wall 38-55 cartridge easily, and IIRC it wasn't that simple as there were dimples in the magazine that pushed up on the shoulder of the cartridge. Not saying it would be impossible to do but might not be simple. Anyway, this would be a cool conversion (and make the gun legal in those states that require a pistol caliber for deer hunting) but check magazine feed also.

[dverna]

I doubt you have a rifle issue with the crown or bore if it shoots jacketed well.

If it were me, I would use jacketed for hunting. Cast bullets offer no advantage anyway.

Then, if I wanted cheaper practice ammo, start with linotype and see if it shoots well enough. If linotype will not shoot, I doubt a softer alloy is going to help much. So end of the cast journey so to speak But that means you need to cast. Most commercial "hard" bullets are 92-2-6 alloy. Linotype will be harder and not suitable for hunting.

The 788's are great rifles so I wish you luck!!!

One option not mentioned yet is paper patching. You can use a softer alloy and drive it faster if you want to hunt with cast.

[mjac]

I doubt you have a rifle issue with the crown or bore if it shoots jacketed well.

If it were me, I would use jacketed for hunting. Cast bullets offer no advantage anyway.

Then, if I wanted cheaper practice ammo, start with linotype and see if it shoots well enough. If linotype will not shoot, I doubt a softer alloy is going to help much. So end of the cast journey so to speak But that means you need to cast. Most commercial "hard" bullets are 92-2-6 alloy. Linotype will be harder and not suitable for hunting.

The 788's are great rifles so I wish you luck!!!

One option not mentioned yet is paper patching. You can use a softer alloy and drive it faster if you want to hunt with cast.

I haven't given up on it shooting cast. Yet.
I've being doing some barrel de-coppering and have loaded several of the better grouping boolits/charges. Not good but the best of the worst. I'll see what I get one more time before throwing the towel on the 788 and cast.
It does shoot factory J words quite well and I do have plenty of J word components stashed away I can use. I wasn't looking for another pig gun but there is room in the safe. Pigs here are 24/7/365.
My Sav 340 30-30 and Rem 300 30-06 have given me the cast deer hunting accuracy I desire with velocities in the 1750-2000 fps range and will keep me in the cast game.

Thanks for your frank assessment, options and encouragement.

[FredBuddy]

I was just pawing thru my stuff, and found
that my 788 really likes my NOE RD 165
checked and lubed with LLA/JPW. That's
Lee Liquid Alox/Johnsons Past Wax.
They're made of wheel weights 70%, pure
lead 30% and sized to.3108. As mentioned
in previous post, I use the NOE neck expander
.309/.313. 22 grains of IMR 3031 and finished
with the Redding profile (taper) crimp.
This is in the 1500-1600 FPS range. 30-30 is
not deer legal in Ohio, but this is sure good
enough for a walk-about where I live.

[mjac]

I first would like extend my thanks and appreciation to those of you both on and off list, who shared their tips, suggestions and encouragement. I was ready to send this rifle to the j word shooter side of the safe or worst, sell it.

I have made and recorded several changes to the boolit specs, to my loading technique and range procedure. Your help has produced this 50 yd. group @ 1800 fps. That's a 1" dot and yeah, I finally bought a chrony.




I have a bit more load tweaking to do but for now the rifle is a cast shooter. When I get time to get the bushhog out, we'll see what I do at 100 yds.

It hasn't taken over the top spot from my Savage 340C but its getting closer.

Thanks again.

[FredBuddy]

Now you're cooking !

[nockhunter]

Looks like it might be coming around. If it doesn't shoot to your liking and was mine, and re-bore is on the list, I would re-bore to 35/30. That should have no problem feeding from the magazine and would be a great cast shooter.

Mike