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Thread: Why Penetration > Expansion

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master Harter66's Avatar
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    It's about tissue disruption .

    I've seen deer killed with a 1"+ entry and a 25 cal exit lungs were Jello and the heart full of blood jelly . I don't know what caused the the damage , hydrostatic shock , energy exchange/dump but I know it was done from 80-200 yd with jacketed bullet at 3100 fps MV from a 24" 25-06' .

    I've seen deer with funnel shaped wounds starting at 30 cal and exits roughly silver dollar sized skin hole with a baseball sized cavity beneath . 2700 fps 150 gr jacket .

    Both traveled 20-25" and made a lot of bone meal .

    I shot one deer with a very soft paper patched 200 gr spitzer shaped bullet and at 1900 fps and 80 yd , just as a number reference because the legal requirements state 1000 ftlb at 100 yd , the shot delivered a little over 1054 ftlb to the deer and created a soft tissue wound track very much like the 150 gr jacketed with less bone meal .

    A 45 Colts makes a through hole of about 1/2" with a 1" or so jelly/massive bleeding tube with a 454424 and a little less with a 452-255 RNFP . Don't know what to call that either but it almost certainly has something to do with energy exchange and shock waves caused by 500 ftlb behind a .3 flat meplat .

    You can label the tissue disruption whatever with whatever tool or number value makes you feel good . Ftlb is what's written in the Nevada big game legal weapon definition so it's a familiar scale to use to visualize terminal performance .

    This is a stupid on going discourse we have every year from 10/12 to 2/14 that is the result of Maine referencing 25 ACP as a minimum deer cartridge and Nevada requiring a 22 or greater cal , with a minimum 2 " OAL and 1000#@100 yd , and pistols of 24 cal with a minimum case length of that of the 44 Remington Magnum for all big game . You're literally arguing about degrees of dead and the degree of success and efficiency of how much tissue is converted to a semi fluid and springs major leaks to run out of how many holes .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

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  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy memtb's Avatar
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    Sep 2016
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    Energy, especially at .357 mag velocities (handgun or rifle) is a bit of a misnomer! Perhaps, with very high velocities energy may become an important factor, but extended penetration combined with tissue, organ, and bone destruction trumps velocity! Spend a few minutes reading this very relevant document pertaining to energy, wound channel, hydraulic shock, .ect., ect. You find it very enlightening!

    Oh.....Congrats on a fine deer. It should be fine eating! memtb

    http://rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html

  3. #23
    Boolit Master smkummer's Avatar
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    Congrats, I live in Southern IN and know about the corn feed deer around here. How far did the deer go before he dropped? I love my marlin 1894C and it’s deadly accurate with Lyman’s 358430 190 grain blunt bullet. I wouldn’t expect much expansion being hard cast for micro groove but know it’s penetration would plenty.

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