Standing coated bullets up for baking

[daloper]

I stand mine up using a small pair of spring loaded electronics needle nose pliers. Pick them up, tap the pliers on the container to knock off the excess and stand them up.

[memtb]

Works just great for me for my .300 Blk heavies:



https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QZ34SMV/ - size 3/8" square.

Andy, I had just bought a silicon ice cube tray (1/2” round) for my .45 cal boolits. However, my tray appears to be deeper than your tray. 300 grainers only extend about 1/3 bullet above the edge of tray. So a question.....Do you modify your technique, as it appears that the tray may be somewhat insulating the bullets? Today, I waited for an observed powder melt, then added 10 minutes to my cook time. At best, I’ll call them fair.....nothing as pretty as those shown by most on the forum. Adult supervision needed! memtb

[AndyC]

Yes, I had the same concern as you and also added 10 minutes - but it's still early days for me to find which powder color coats the cleanest. I find my Eastwood Blue is kinda thick, so I'll be experimenting with that next.

[RogerDat]

I stand up most that are large enough on non-stick foil. For smaller stuff like .223 or especially tall bullets like a 220 grain 303 bullet I lay down in a modified bread cooling rack.

Bread cooling rack is wire rack fairly small wire, with feet (to allow air to flow under the rack) I remove one set of feet so the rack is at an angle toward the front when set on the baking tray. The wire is then covered with non-stick foil and gently pushed down between the wires to form a shallow trough This keeps the bullets from rolling down and the contact is all along the side of bullet in a narrow band. I find if I am gentle there is generally no discernable blemish where the bullet rests on the foil.

The angled trough prevents the bullets from moving around while being easy to access since the cut off legs leave it angled toward the front.

I place the bullets on tray or in the trough using a pair of fine needle nose pliers that are spring loaded to open. Every so often I will "scuff" the PC a bit with the tips if the bullet slips or twists a bit when being gripped but over all it is too little to matter or if the bullet actually slips too much I just toss it back in the plastic bowl for more shaking.

I like nice looking but really I figure loading bolt guns or revolvers, or even lever rifles the total number of bullets used doesn't take that long, no really large time savings possible. For the auto loaders... well if I'm making 300 and a few have a slight blemish? Not a big deal as long as it doesn't impact performance.

I use a small or larger toaster oven. Small oven holds maybe 60 bullets upright or 30 or 40 on their sides in the tilted bread rack. Larger oven can do twice that. I load the tray or rack on the rack for the oven just pulled out to provide access. All I have to do is slide oven rack in with enough care to not tip things over. Seldom have any fall, as in can do several trays of 60 with none falling.

One tip, leave enough room between bullets to reduce chance of domino effect if one falls. No reason to have as single falling bullet knock over others. Also easier to place them if there is a little room.

PC is easy, I putter in garage while they bake. Little stretches of 15 minutes to straighten or adjust something helps the time pass and is productive. I know some need or want larger & faster but for me this works. Mostly I just wanted to share the use of the bread rack. Works especially well for PC of .224 bullets. I should mention these are 70 grain so probably a bit longer than the typical 55 grain version.

[memtb]

I got an old “retired” electric stove and put in my pole barn for my powder coating. If I ever get this figured out, I can easily do 600 bullets at a time. With another oven rack 900 would be easy enough. No more than I shoot, I could wait for near perfect atmospheric (<20% humidity) conditions to do my baking.....and probably only cook once per year! But......we ain’t there yet! memtb

[Slugster]

Watching this thread with interest. I still use my Lyman 450 squeeze and squirt sizer/lubricator and it is tough to get me to change from something that has always worked, to something that might work for me. One of my main concerns is, will the coating on boolits that are touching when cured stick together and when broke apart leave bare patches or lumps on the boolits. Would this condition cause boolits to spin on an eccentric axis? My question would be 'does non uniform coating cause inaccuracy?

[memtb]

Slugster, I have no personal experience, as I’m coating large dia. bullets and were standing individually prior to experimenting with the silicon ice cube trays. But, from everything that I have read, them contacting each other during the cook process leaves minimal blemishes. Supposedly, at handgun velocities a non-issue. If they were being pushed fast, perhaps complete and even coating may become more important!

I believe that most folks size the bullets “after” coating, so lumps are non-existent. You will only have a small area without coating! memtb

[markmars]

How does standing them up versus just baking effect accuracy?
I would think on pistol bullets it would have a minimum effect.
The effect on rifle bullets would increase with distances over 50-100 yards.
Is this correct?

[Conditor22]

For many powders, the coated boolits will have marks left on them if they touch each other or the wire basket when baking (this is exacerbated when people leave too much powder on the boolit).

Standing up boolits on wire baskets can leave marks on the base with some PC's

[prs]

How do you guys stand the bullets up without wiping the powder off. I know, stupid question, but i'm new to powder coating.

To avoid wiping powder pait from the sides of boolits, wear nitrile gloves and rub the fingers with some powder.

prs

[Lloyd Smale]

For many powders, the coated boolits will have marks left on them if they touch each other or the wire basket when baking (this is exacerbated when people leave too much powder on the boolit).

Standing up boolits on wire baskets can leave marks on the base with some PC's

never seen where the small bare spots from breaking them apart hurt a thing.

[stanford]

I stand all my bullet up handgun or rifle and have since day one, never had the intentions of doing it any other way and I like the results I get. Nice flat bases are a plus.

res45, what is your process when powder coating?

Going on with this thread I see some folks are using silicon ice cube trays, I thought that those things break down when blasted with 400 deg of heat.

This is how I was doing some coating the other day. I got a bit tired of using the pc gun because powder just goes all over the place. I wanted to try dry tumbling and see what happened. My first batch didn't come out too good so I baked it again. I think I baked it about three times because I wasn't getting good coverage with the powder on the lead.

Since that didn't work too good for me I decided to heat up the lead and shake them in a container, with the lead hot the powder will stick a lot better. Well I ended up with a whole bunch of lead stuck together and I couldn't break them apart. I had to put the lead with the stuck on powder back into the melting pot. I haven't done any coating since then so I am trying to learn some of the secrets you guys are using.

I did try the non stick foil but my boolits still stuck to the foil, I tried the cookie paper and it stuck too. Also the base of the boolits always look really bad.

I really need a new process, how about you guys giving me some guidance into your secrets.


Thanks

[charlie b]

You have a humidity thing working against you in east TX, so shake and bake needs a bit of care to get the static electricity that makes the process work. No advice since I am in a very dry climate and the process works well for me. Make sure you are using a powder that will stick with the shake and bake method. All powders are not equal in this regard. See Smoke's stuff or use one of the known good ones, like Eastwood's Ford Light Blue. Some little things. Make sure the bullets are clean of all oils. I usually put mine through a rinse in acetone to get all the oils off. Dry completely. Then shake. When casting run the process a bit on the warm side to get a 'soft' frosty look to the bullets. That makes the surface a little rougher and it will hold the powder better. But, not too hot

When I take the bullets out of the tub I use some tweezers with heat shrink tubing over the tips (not the shiny stuff). I take the bullets out of the tub and wipe off the base and then put the bullets on the tray. If you still get a lot of build up at the base then there is too much powder on the bullets. In that case tap them against the side of the tub to shake off a bit of powder before putting them on the tray.

I have used non-stick Al foil, but, the silicone baking sheets work better. I cut one to fit the tray for my oven. Over time the PC will build up on the sheet so I toss it and get a new one. And, yes, the bullets will sometimes still stick to the baking sheet. I just dump the whole thing on a large towel and shake until the bullets fall off.

Follow the powder mfg directions for baking times. Eastwood's directions are for 450F until the coating fully flows (shiny all over) and then 400F for 20min. Works well for me in a cheap toaster oven (temps checked with two different thermometers).

[AlHunt]

You have a humidity thing working against you in east TX, so shake and bake needs a bit of care to get the static electricity that makes the process work. No advice since I am in a very dry climate and the process works well for me. Make sure you are using a powder that will stick with the shake and bake method. All powders are not equal in this regard. See Smoke's stuff or use one of the known good ones, like Eastwood's Ford Light Blue. Some little things. Make sure the bullets are clean of all oils. I usually put mine through a rinse in acetone to get all the oils off. Dry completely. Then shake. When casting run the process a bit on the warm side to get a 'soft' frosty look to the bullets. That makes the surface a little rougher and it will hold the powder better. But, not too hot

When I take the bullets out of the tub I use some tweezers with heat shrink tubing over the tips (not the shiny stuff). I take the bullets out of the tub and wipe off the base and then put the bullets on the tray. If you still get a lot of build up at the base then there is too much powder on the bullets. In that case tap them against the side of the tub to shake off a bit of powder before putting them on the tray.

I have used non-stick Al foil, but, the silicone baking sheets work better. I cut one to fit the tray for my oven. Over time the PC will build up on the sheet so I toss it and get a new one. And, yes, the bullets will sometimes still stick to the baking sheet. I just dump the whole thing on a large towel and shake until the bullets fall off.

Follow the powder mfg directions for baking times. Eastwood's directions are for 450F until the coating fully flows (shiny all over) and then 400F for 20min. Works well for me in a cheap toaster oven (temps checked with two different thermometers).

Some of you guys are spending a lot of time standing bullets with tweezers. If it works for you, you'll get no grief from me. I've gone to the "cook them in a big pile, laying all over each other" method. I learned that technique here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRVXic3-ztE

When they come out of the oven, I slam the tray upside down into a waiting cardboard box and beat it around to be sure most of the bullets break up.

When I startred out I stood everyone up and I'd probably do that if I wanted a couple hundred at a time for some kind of precision shooting. But pistol bullets for tin cans and steel plates don't require that level of care.

[Lloyd Smale]

res45, what is your process when powder coating?

Going on with this thread I see some folks are using silicon ice cube trays, I thought that those things break down when blasted with 400 deg of heat.

This is how I was doing some coating the other day. I got a bit tired of using the pc gun because powder just goes all over the place. I wanted to try dry tumbling and see what happened. My first batch didn't come out too good so I baked it again. I think I baked it about three times because I wasn't getting good coverage with the powder on the lead.

Since that didn't work too good for me I decided to heat up the lead and shake them in a container, with the lead hot the powder will stick a lot better. Well I ended up with a whole bunch of lead stuck together and I couldn't break them apart. I had to put the lead with the stuck on powder back into the melting pot. I haven't done any coating since then so I am trying to learn some of the secrets you guys are using.

I did try the non stick foil but my boolits still stuck to the foil, I tried the cookie paper and it stuck too. Also the base of the boolits always look really bad.

I really need a new process, how about you guys giving me some guidance into your secrets.


Thanks

i had simular luck with the non stick foil. but parchment paper worked well for me.

[res45]

Not sure why anyone is having problems with their bullets sticking to non-stick foil or Parchment paper. Both brands I use or made by Reynolds and I can get multiple uses out of each piece before it has to be replaced, I've never used any other brands so my experience is limited with other brands. I use an oven thomometer that has a glass bulb not the dial type to make sure my oven was set to 400 degrees, mine was off by about 30 degrees when it reached peak temperature but holds steady once set.

Parchment paper has a limit temperature of 425 degrees before the coating starts to burn off, Non stick foil has two sides one dull side coat the sinny side is not, powder coat will stick to the no coated side.

[charlie b]

Some of you guys are spending a lot of time standing bullets with tweezers. If it works for you, you'll get no grief from me. I've gone to the "cook them in a big pile, laying all over each other" method. I learned that technique here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRVXic3-ztE

When they come out of the oven, I slam the tray upside down into a waiting cardboard box and beat it around to be sure most of the bullets break up.

When I startred out I stood everyone up and I'd probably do that if I wanted a couple hundred at a time for some kind of precision shooting. But pistol bullets for tin cans and steel plates don't require that level of care.

I would not stand up pistol bullets either. 99% of my shooting is rifle, at 200-600yd. MOA groups are common.

[AlHunt]

I would not stand up pistol bullets either. 99% of my shooting is rifle, at 200-600yd. MOA groups are common.

A bit of a tangent, have you found a difference in accuracy between PC and conventionally lubed and sized?

[charlie b]

I have not done back to back testing (but I will soon).

When I started casting for my .308 I got the Lee 180gn mold. Cast and conventional lube (pan lube, Ben's Red). Hundreds of rounds of ladder testing and shooting for groups. Then I started powder coating. Hundreds of rounds using same loads resulted in about the same group sizes. That's why I went to PC.

Now I have fired two other bullet shapes through the same rifle, powder coated, and have quite a history of groups and loads. During the next month or two I will be pan lubing some of the current bullets and shooting pan lube and PC with same loads and comparing accuracy and velocities.

[gnappi]

I'd love to use silicone ice trays, but as yet I have not seen one with holes large enough for .40's and .45's (say .5" square or round) that hold more than 24 bullets or so.