Article In Guns Magazine

[alamogunr]

There was an interesting(to me) article in Guns magazine January '21 issue. Randy Garrett wrote the article on .44 Mag in lever actions. This was the first article that addressed the slow twist in most pistol cartridge lever actions. The article mostly focused on the Marlin 1894. I was interested because my Browning B92 also has a 1-in-38" twist barrel.

Almost all articles I have read have dismissed the rifles because of the slow twist. Mr. Garrett wrote what worked for him. What worked was 240gr bullets Not heavier. I'm going to get my Browning out and try some 240 grainers. Also, going to try some 225 grain bullets. I have several molds in the 230-232 gr range that I'm hoping will not be frustrating.

I've not cast with the 225 gr mold but will shortly. I will probably have to develop a load since I don't expect to find a load in any of my manuals. Although I can hope that one will get close.

This issue was the last in my subscription and I was seriously thinking about not renewing. I guess now I will wait until they finally realize that I'm not giving in to any of the subscription offers they've sent and that I'm waiting until they really get serious.

[nagantguy]

Hornady loads a 225 grain FTX in 44 mag- so at least for starters you should find some data, also from time to time I see lighter federal loads I’ve a box of federal 180 grain JSP on my self.
And don’t take everything you read as gospel - I’ve a trapper carbine Winchester in 44 mag, it shoots 255-270 grain boolits wonderfully and the big 310 lees to minute of whitetail I’ve posted here some of the deer my daughter has taken with that boolit and lever action. Conventional wisdom says the slow Winchester twist wouldn’t shoot boolits that heavy but is delivered very good accuracy with the Kith style 255/260 grain semi wade cutters .
Good luck on your quest.

[Buckshot]

................I have a Rossi M92 in 45 Colt:


..................And a Miroku in 45 Colt also:



The Rossi has a 32" twist, and the Miroku has a 16" twist. I'd suspect the Miroku's accuracy might hold up better at longer ranges, especially with heavier slugs. However they both come fully equipped with "Young persons" type iron sights, so for me it might be a wash. Both rifles have exhibited very useful accuracy.

I enjoy telling this, but I bought the Miroku used from a gunshop for $350, as it was missing the buttplate, but they had one ordered. It took 2 weeks for them to get it, and it was a carbine buttplate, so they'd knock off $50 if I didn't want to wait. I was DONE waiting In 4 days I had a new buttplate for $16 (with 2 day shipping) and I heat blued it after fitting it. I had just gotten it fitted to the stock when I took the photo (see the stain on it?)

...............Buckshot

[alamogunr]

Beautiful guns. I have a Rossi in .357 Mag. I doubt that it looks as good as yours though. I bought the Browning B92 quite a few years ago for $325 when they were going for $500+. The seller had shot it with reloaded cast bullets that, I assume, were undersize. The barrel was so leaded that you couldn't see the lands. The only way I could get it out was to use the Chore Boy method. Lead came out in strands. He included about 350 of the reloads which I disassembled. I didn't bother to check the diameter since they may have been swaged down when seated and crimped.

Since I haven't spent any time with the gun, I'm going to slug the barrel first and if my molds are too small, I'll finally try powder coat. I also guess I should check to see if my gun is a Miroku. I never bothered to check that out.

[indian joe]

There was an interesting(to me) article in Guns magazine January '21 issue. Randy Garrett wrote the article on .44 Mag in lever actions. This was the first article that addressed the slow twist in most pistol cartridge lever actions. The article mostly focused on the Marlin 1894. I was interested because my Browning B92 also has a 1-in-38" twist barrel.

Almost all articles I have read have dismissed the rifles because of the slow twist. Mr. Garrett wrote what worked for him. What worked was 240gr bullets Not heavier. I'm going to get my Browning out and try some 240 grainers. Also, going to try some 225 grain bullets. I have several molds in the 230-232 gr range that I'm hoping will not be frustrating.

I've not cast with the 225 gr mold but will shortly. I will probably have to develop a load since I don't expect to find a load in any of my manuals. Although I can hope that one will get close.

This issue was the last in my subscription and I was seriously thinking about not renewing. I guess now I will wait until they finally realize that I'm not giving in to any of the subscription offers they've sent and that I'm waiting until they really get serious.

Twist rate is only part of the story on stability ---RPM's on muzzle departure is the other part - a lot of unstable loads in slower twist barrels can be fixed with a couple grains more powder (that also has a limit = pressure or your shoulder)

[Warhawk]

There was an interesting(to me) article in Guns magazine January '21 issue. Randy Garrett wrote the article on .44 Mag in lever actions. This was the first article that addressed the slow twist in most pistol cartridge lever actions. The article mostly focused on the Marlin 1894. I was interested because my Browning B92 also has a 1-in-38" twist barrel.

Almost all articles I have read have dismissed the rifles because of the slow twist. Mr. Garrett wrote what worked for him. What worked was 240gr bullets Not heavier. I'm going to get my Browning out and try some 240 grainers. Also, going to try some 225 grain bullets. I have several molds in the 230-232 gr range that I'm hoping will not be frustrating.

I've not cast with the 225 gr mold but will shortly. I will probably have to develop a load since I don't expect to find a load in any of my manuals. Although I can hope that one will get close.

This issue was the last in my subscription and I was seriously thinking about not renewing. I guess now I will wait until they finally realize that I'm not giving in to any of the subscription offers they've sent and that I'm waiting until they really get serious.

Good to see that I’m not the only one disappointed with the 1:38 twist and oversize bore of the SAAMI spec 44 Mag rifle barrel. My Browning 92 has never been very accurate, neither have the half dozen Marlin 44s I’ve owned over the years. Years ago I bought a bunch of Speer 270 grain JSP bullets and loaded them hot, not realizing at the time that I was going the wrong way. I still have a box and a half of those loads.

I’ve approached the problem much the same way you did, but I’ve gone even farther. I have some 200 grain polymer coated RNFP bullets for mid range loads, and some Speer 200 and 210 grain jacketed bullets for Magnums. Seeing that article the other day made me remember that I hadn’t loaded any of these yet. And I recently bought a Cimarron 1873 in 44 Special, hoping to get an accurate 44 rifle. The poly coated 200s will get loaded in 44 Special brass for it.

I’ve also considered having the Browning rebarreled.

[Prairie Cowboy]

Around 2005 or so I owned a JM Marlin 1894 Stainless in .44 magnum, with Ballard rifling.

I loaded some 270 grain Speer Gold Dot JSP cartridges with about 17.5 grains of 2400 as I recall. Interpolating my Lyman loading manual, the velocity could not have exceeded 1400 FPS with this powder charge.

Shooting with the factory open sights from the bench, I got 100 yard groups measuring 1 1/2" wide by about 4" in height. The vertical stringing may have been caused by the barrel band being cinched down too tight, allowing thermal expansion to affect shot-to-shot elevation or by velocity variations with heavy bullets. Lever gun group stringing has never been uncommon.

The point is that this is pretty good accuracy with any pistol caliber carbine with open sights at 100 yards, and that those heavy bullets had no negative effect at all, even with the dreaded 1:38" twist.

I'm not saying that that .44 magnum Marlins don't have over-sized bores. I sold one with a .432" bore recently because it wasn't going to be any use to me for cast bullets. It also did not shoot well even at 50 yards with .430" Hornaday XTP 240 grain JSP bullets and 18.5 grains of 2400. (around 1500 FPS)

But, if the bore and the bullet are a good size match, I don't think that a 1:38" twist is going to be a problem. My Marlin Cowboy in .45 Colt shoots 2" groups easily at 50 yards with Winchester 250 grain lead cowboy ammo, even with my senior citizen eyes and those same old factory bead and buckhorn open sights.

[andrew375]

My .44 mag m94 shoots the lbt 330 bullet very well indeed! I load them with a maximum load of vv n110 for just over 1300 fps. It is very accurate, I've shot this out to 500 yards without a problem. So I don't see where this supposed "problem" comes from.

[444ttd]

gun rags, hmmph!!!!!!

[Nobade]

Yeah, all those magazine articles go on about the slow twist and how it is not good for accuracy. And not a single one I have seen mentions the SAAMI 44 mag barrel is .433" in the grooves. I guess because you can't buy .433" jacketed bullets and they don't want to have to mention that if you want it to shoot you'll need to cast or swage custom bullets to fit it. My own rifle, a 1973 Marlin, is typical. Can't hit the barn from the inside with .430" bullets but cast big ones or paper patch them to fit and it's as good as anything out there. And the 1:38 will stabilize a 265 with no problem.

[Walks]

I've an older Win94 with a 20" bbl. Don't know if bbl length plays a part in twist rate. But a friend's 16" bbl'd 94 Will Not stabilize the Hornady 265gr FP whereas my 20" bbl'd rifle will.
At 100yds the 16" throws patterns, the 20" groups into less then 3", both with 4x scopes.
This was with max loads using IMR4227.
Also shoots well in a B92.
Ya gotta kick those small jackets bullets really hard in the butt to get them to expand enough to help the rifling.

[sghart3578]

I get excellent accuracy from my 1894CB in 45 Colt. 250 gr bullets at 1150 fps, slow twist and all.

Steve in N CA

[The_Eccentric]

I've an older Win94 with a 20" bbl. Don't know if bbl length plays a part in twist rate. But a friend's 16" bbl'd 94 Will Not stabilize the Hornady 265gr FP whereas my 20" bbl'd rifle will.
At 100yds the 16" throws patterns, the 20" groups into less then 3", both with 4x scopes.
This was with max loads using IMR4227.
Also shoots well in a B92.
Ya gotta kick those small jackets bullets really hard in the butt to get them to expand enough to help the rifling.

Have you chronographed that load out of those two rifles? The higher the velocity, the higher the rotational speed of the bullet for a given rifling twist. Could well be that your 20" barrel pushes (and therefore spins) those bullets fast enough to stabilize them, while your friend's 16" barrel does not.

[Win94ae]

I've used the 265gr bullets in my Marlin 1894s 44mag and they work wonderfully, until I get passed 200 yards, then they go way off course. 240gr will hit at 350 yards consistently.

[three50seven]

Glen Fryxell's article on the Marlin 1894 discusses bullets up to and over 300gr in the .44 Mag. I believe his tests showed they were able to stabilize bullets up to 300 gr. If my memory serves me correctly.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Norske]

My Marlin 1894 shoots 240gr bullets over 20 gr 2400 very accurately, but the Lee 300 gr cast bullet I love in my Ruger SBHs makes slightly oblong holes in targets from the Marlin. When Ruger bought Marlin, I sent them a request they change the 1894 twist to match their revolvers (the 444 Marlin 1895 has a 1 in 20" twist already).

[lar45]

I had a Marlin 1894 44mag years ago.
I had very good luck with an RCBS 215 SWC. It would put 3 into a 1.5" group regularly. I used a max charge of Herc 2400

[longbow]

I have a Marlin 1894 with 1:38" twist as well. I had wanted to shoot 300 gr. boolits but found that they were keyholing by 100 yards. I tried Hornady TC jacketed as well with same results and that was over a full load of H110.

I found that 265 gr. RNFP boolits were stable to at least 200 yards in my gun with my loads. I have been told that WFN designs up to 300 grs. will stabilize at full loads out to 300 yards and RanchDog also says his 300 gr. design stabilizes out to 300 yards from 1:38" twist.

I settled on 250 to 270 gr. max. So far the Mihec 434640 at 270 grs. shoots well out to 100 yards.

Also, what Nobade said... fat boolits! I buy moulds that cast 0.433" to 0.434" to fill fat grooves.

Longbow

[alamogunr]

I had a Marlin 1894 44mag years ago.
I had very good luck with an RCBS 215 SWC. It would put 3 into a 1.5" group regularly. I used a max charge of Herc 2400

I'm hoping that your results w/215 gr portends good results with my 225 gr Arsenal mold. May be after Christmas before I can work with it.

[Rodfac]

My 336 Marlin in .44 Magnum does quite well with anything from 200 to 265 grains...about as useful a range of bullets as I can imagine in the lower 48 for deer under 125 yds. I have no interest in overweight for caliber bullets as I see no useful purpose for them. The Marlin slugs at 0.432+ and that's what I shoot for while casting. Lyman's 429421, 429215GC and 429244GC all do very well as does Ranch Dogs 432.265 when sized to 0.432" and cast from Wheel Weighs with a pinch of tin. More I don't need...accuracy runs very close to an inch at 50 with a low power scope mounted. YMMv Rod