Hey Starline, start making primers!

[reddog81]

Hornady makes their own brass and bullets. That is their bread and butter. They make most of their own stuff, although I wouldn't be surprised if they have multiple plants. Powder and primers are a whole other matter. Federal is the only company I know of that makes their own primers. CCI does, but primers and rimfire is about all they do. I don't know much of the market outside of the USA, so for all I know Fiocchi or another European company does.

CCI and Federal are owned by Vista Outdoors. Vista Outdoors also just bought out the Remington ammo line so I imagine they'll get the primer making business. That leaves Winchester as the only other US based primer manufacturer other than Vista Outdoors.

[bangerjim]

That is like asking a lumber yard to start making steel bridge struts! Totally different industry, process, and government approvals!!!!!

It would take totally different machinery and a LOT of investment on their part.

I use a lot of their brass (38SPL,44MAG/SPL, and 45LC) and have never had a problem with the 4K of them I have used.

[dtknowles]

CCI and Federal are owned by Vista Outdoors. Vista Outdoors also just bought out the Remington ammo line so I imagine they'll get the primer making business. That leaves Winchester as the only other US based primer manufacturer other than Vista Outdoors.

Or just shutdown the Remington primer factory and sell CCI primers with Remington label. Not right now when demand is high but after when demand slumps then next time we get a shortage there will be less production capacity.

Tim

[reddog81]

Or just shutdown the Remington primer factory and sell CCI primers with Remington label. Not right now when demand is high but after when demand slumps then next time we get a shortage there will be less production capacity.

Tim

Hard to guess at what they'll do over time. Anything is possible... The thing that worries me is that 3 out of 4 primer brands are made by one outfit. Hopefully they keep production in separate locations to avert a complete collapse in supply should some natural disaster happen that takes a facility out of commission.

[dtknowles]

Hard to guess at what they'll do over time. Anything is possible... The thing that worries me is that 3 out of 4 primer brands are made by one outfit. Hopefully they keep production in separate locations to avert a complete collapse in supply should some natural disaster happen that takes a facility out of commission.

I only know of three domestic primer brands, CCI, Remington, and Winchester. Isn't Federal ammo primed with CCI primers? Who is the fourth. Who's primers does Hornady use? Yeah, I too would hope they keep the Remington primer production line running but from a business point of view is seems unlikely they would keep two separate production lines running if demand was low. I know that Lake City used to make their own primers because they had an accident in the primer making area that killed a person and injured others. Now that Winchester is running Lake City, I wonder if things change there. Will the WCC head stamp go away?

Ok I just went to check and I see Federal is selling primers. Are these made on a different production line than CCI primers?

Tim

[megasupermagnum]

I wouldn't be surprised if some Federal ammo uses CCI primers, but the bulk of it is Federal primers. Actually, I'm certain the Federal 16 gauge 1 oz game load uses a CCI 209 primer. Most Federal shotgun ammo uses their Federal 209A primer. That does bring up a good question though. Are CCI primers mainly built for reloaders, or are there factories that use them as well?

[dtknowles]

I wouldn't be surprised if some Federal ammo uses CCI primers, but the bulk of it is Federal primers. Actually, I'm certain the Federal 16 gauge 1 oz game load uses a CCI 209 primer. Most Federal shotgun ammo uses their Federal 209A primer. That does bring up a good question though. Are CCI primers mainly built for reloaders, or are there factories that use them as well?

My question is really not about labels but about production lines. Are Federal primers and CCI primers made in different factories. I am sure that a lot of products are not made by the brands who's name is on the box. In this particular case Federal and CCI are owned by the same company and now they own the Remington primer factory. How will we know which factory made the primers in the box?

If you have loads that use a particular primer what is to stop Vista from putting CCI 400's in rem 6 1/2 boxes.

[megasupermagnum]

My question is really not about labels but about production lines. Are Federal primers and CCI primers made in different factories. I am sure that a lot of products are not made by the brands who's name is on the box. In this particular case Federal and CCI are owned by the same company and now they own the Remington primer factory. How will we know which factory made the primers in the box?

If you have loads that use a particular primer what is to stop Vista from putting CCI 400's in rem 6 1/2 boxes.

Yes. Federal primers are made in Anoka, MN, and have been for as long I know. CCI primers are made in Lewiston, ID, and again, have been for as long as I know. Now that Vista owns Remington ammo, I suppose there is nothing stopping them from making Remington primers at the CCI plant. I really doubt they would do that, or they would have been doing crossovers with the CCI/Federal primers already. I think they know reloaders and shooters in general can be a finicky bunch. Change anything, and someone will notice.

[dtknowles]

Yes. Federal primers are made in Anoka, MN, and have been for as long I know. CCI primers are made in Lewiston, ID, and again, have been for as long as I know. Now that Vista owns Remington ammo, I suppose there is nothing stopping them from making Remington primers at the CCI plant. I really doubt they would do that, or they would have been doing crossovers with the CCI/Federal primers already. I think they know reloaders and shooters in general can be a finicky bunch. Change anything, and someone will notice.

Thanks that is a bit reassuring as yes, we don't like being messed with. We do know that some Federal ammo is using CCI primers but for factory ammo I don't see that as a problem as much as having someone sell me CCI primers labeled as Remington primers. I was a bit PO's when I found out the Winchester ammo I bought was just relabeled S&B ammo with a Winchester head stamp. I don't really mind that some Hornady ammo uses Norma brass. I think all Weatherby ammo used Norma brass at one time. I understand it is stupid for multiple manufacturers to make brass that has little demand. I like that we have a lot of small shops that load less common rounds using Starline brass. Sometimes if you divide the pie into to many slices there really will be not pie.

Tim

[Tom Myers]

How do you know that Hornady makes their own brass. I was reading a review of a new load from Hornady and the article said the brass was made for Hornady by Norma. I am not saying you are wrong just wondering about your sources. Also I have read that some Winchester ammo is made by S&B. The head stamp on brass is not always indicative of who made the brass.

Tim

Tim,

Many years ago, when I was driving an over the road semi, I hauled a load of copper coils into the Hornady Plant near Grand Island, Nebraska. At that time I was working for a small company that would occasionally have a hard time finding a return load form me so I carried a portable reloading kit in my truck to pass the down time.

After the coils were unloaded, I asked the dock forman if I could look around a little. I really didn't think they would let someone just wander around and was surprised when he said "Wait a minute and I'll get someone to show you around the plant".

After a short wait, a pleasant young gentleman came down to the dock and offered to take me on a short tour of the plant floor. At that time I believe they were only just manufacturing bullets as all that I observed were the units swaging cores, drawing brass, swagging bullets, polishing and packing the finished product.

Needless to say, I was facinated and made the comment that I had, in the past, used Hornady bullets to reload my Dad's 270 Remington 700 and carried a reloading kit in my truck. My guide responded "Would you like a sample of what we are producing now?". After an enthusistic "Yes!", We moved on to the packaging section and he picked up a box of 130 gr 270 and a box of 150 gr RN 270 bullets, handed them to me and said something to the effect that "These are working well for everyone".

Although I do not recall if the young gentleman introduced himself, the deference shown to him by the employes on the plant floor, led me to beleive that he was the Son of Joyce Hornady???

That was one of the highlights of my 30 odd years of trucking and, to this day, I still have a partial box of 150 gr RN bullets with the "Hornady" lable.

So yes, I believe that Hornady does manufacture, at least the majority, of the products they sell.

[bpatterson84]

Now that is a cool story about the tour!!! Good to hear people treating curious customers to an experience like that.

As to the primers......as was said before, you don't just ramp up production of primary explosives, its asking for disaster. Of course we need more than can be produced now, but like much of the ammo industry, infrastructure is a significant cost, and takes a long time to recoup.

[dtknowles]

Tim,

Many years ago, when I driving an over the road semi, I hauled a load of copper coils into the Hornady Plant near Grand Island, Nebraska. At that time I was working for a small company that would occasionally have a hard time finding a return load form me so I was kept a portable reloading kit in my truck to pass the down time.

After the coils were unloaded, I asked the dock forman if I could look around a little. I really didn't think they would let someone just wander around and was surprised when he said "Wait a minute and I'll get someone to show you around the plant".

After a short wait, a pleasant young gentleman came down to the dock and offered to take me on a short tour of the plant floor. At that time I believe they were only just manufacturing bullets as all that I observed were the units swaging cores, drawing brass, swagging bullets, polishing and packing the finished product.

Needless to say, I was facinated and made the comment that I had, in the past, used Hornady bullets to reload my Dad's 270 Remington 700 and carried a reloading kit in my truck. My guide responded "Would you like a sample of what we are producing now?". After an enthusistic "Yes!", We moved on to the packaging section and he picked up a box of 130 gr 270 and a box of 150 gr RN 270 bullets, handed them to me and said something to the effect that "These are working well for everyone".

Although I do not recall if the young gentleman introduced himself, the deference shown to him by the employes on the plant floor, led me to beleive that he was the Son of Joyce Hornady???

That was one of the highlights of my 30 odd years of trucking and, to this day, I still have a partial box of 150 gr RN bullets with the "Hornady" lable.

So yes, I believe that Hornady does manufacture, at least the majority, of the products they sell.

Thanks for sharing that story and I hope that no one thinks I was being critical of Hornady. I think they are a great company. I use their products and their 22 Hornet 35 gr. vmax factory ammo shoots better in my rifle than my most carefully hand loaded rounds. We know they don't make the primers and powder they use and if they get the brass from some place else no big deal either. I think the key when outsource components is quality control and holding your subs to very high standards. I still have a partial box of Hornady 180gr. 30 caliber round nose moose bullets from a time in the 80's when I was loading them in 30-06. I never won the moose lottery in Maine and rarely get back there.

Tim

[leadhead]

Back in 1988, a buddy of mine and I went to the handgun internationals in Idaho Falls, Idaho.
He knew Steve Hornady and had set up a tour at the plant. We arrived in Grand Island
Nebraska around 8:00 o"clock in the morning, ate breakfast and went to the plant.
Toured everything in the plant...even the underground testing range. I'll never forget it.
Was one of my very best memories. It is really something to see. If you ever get the
chance to tour it.... do it.
leadhead

[rockrat]

Wife and I did the Hornady tour a few years ago. Don't know about her, but I really enjoyed it. Drooled over the underground range too!! Unfortunately, they didn't give out bullet samples

Looked at the pallets of lead and told the wife I needed a pallet of the stuff, she just rolled her eyes

[leadhead]

They gave me the samples from the pressure tests they did.. I still have the cartridges
with the hole punched through the side of the case, and the little copper pellet they used
to measure the pressure (CUP) copper units of pressure. They don't use that anymore.
leadhead

[John Boy]

If you or anyone has QC issues with Starline, just pick up the phone to them and they would have made free replacements. I have never had an issue with any of their brass and I have thousands in different calibers. My wish for them is to make 25-20 brass

[blue32]

From VSTO (Vista Outdoor) 10-Q (quarterly securities and exchange report) released 9/27/20:
"The extent and duration of this increase in demand for hunting and shooting-sports related products is uncertain."
I'm sure eyes are rolling but that's business and I seriously doubt there will be new players in the primer scene any time soon.

[megasupermagnum]

If you or anyone has QC issues with Starline, just pick up the phone to them and they would have made free replacements. I have never had an issue with any of their brass and I have thousands in different calibers. My wish for them is to make 25-20 brass

I did call them, and they no questions asked replaced all my brass at the time. Unfortunately the new brass was just as bad. They are a great company, run by great people. I only wish they would stop trying to run the cheap price point, and at least offer a middle road option on par with many other brands.

[wyowillys46]

Much better chance of getting an import shipment from Fiocchi, S&B, Murom, or Unis-Ginex. We can hope.