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Thread: Help choosing slug for rifled barrel

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Help choosing slug for rifled barrel

    I currently use the 12ga Hornady SST in a Marlin 512 1:28 twist, sighted in for zero at 150yrds. The SST is a 500 mag 300gr FTX bullet at 2,000 fps. "The SST Shotgun Slug delivers true 200 yard accuracy and you'll achieve sub-2" groups at 100 yards. No other slug gun ammo can come close to the performance of the SST. The sharp point increases the ballistic coefficient of the FTX, allowing it to fly faster, farther and on a flatter trajectory."

    I first thought I would cast a bullet for a sabot wad. I never figured out what wad/bullet combo would meet my needs.

    I've been following all of you casting heavy 12ga slugs 500gr-800gr these all seem to work well but are pretty heavy.

    The wadcutter pellet mould is about 525gr and flat, cast in zinc it would be about 315gr but how well will it fly to 150yrds with that large meplat?

    I'm looking for a slug combo at around 300gr. Either sabot, inside a wad, screwed on wad or pressure wad.

    I'm thinking of getting one of the Russian hydrant moulds and casting with zinc wheel weight alloy. Zinc would put this slug at about 315gr. plus the tail wad. I for see availability concerns.

    A buckhammer type slug might also do the trick cast in zinc.

    I realize these won't expand but do they really need to?

    I have two 512's and would dedicate one to shooting these. They both have Nikon BDC scopes. I'm looking for accuracy and a good amount of distance as I can shoot my Rem 1100 smoothbore 100yrds without issue with foster slugs.

    I have plenty of SST's and don't really have time to hunt so this is more a just because I want to project. But I'd love to find an accurate replacement for the SST's.

    We also recently got a Savage 220 and are looking for some good slug/wad combo's for that as well. I'm also thinking of casting a zinc slug for a sabot for that as well. Most of my friends now have the 220 and ammo is hard to come by here, especially the Remington 20ga Accu-Tips.

    What's been working for you, let me know. Thanks, Jason
    Last edited by NyFirefighter357; 11-15-2020 at 06:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Jason,
    These plastic based slugs are the ticket. The plastic base is a couple thou smaller than the lead and engages the rifleing, thus no leading. With a good scope off a rest you can probably get hole touching accuracy out of the 512 @ 100 yds. Easy to load, no exotic components. If I had it all to over I would load these and forget the rest. This slug has the best chance at 150 yd accuracy as well if recoil allows. Dennis is a great guy so give him a call if you like. He is a bullet wizard. https://www.furycustombullets.com/we.../shotgun-slugs
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
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  3. #3
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    The STI sabots www.slugsrus.com are the most accurate thing I have loaded so far, and they are supposed to perform well in the Savage guns, but they are heavier than what you propose. I guess you could cast the inserts with some lighter metal and get the weight down.

    I turn my Brass Inserts on a lathe and you could do something similar with Aluminum or a lighter metal. Also the insert nose could be shaped for a higher BC. They have pics on their site with different shaped inserts people have tried.

    Also accuracy with Lightfield Slugs should be considered. There are videos on Youtube of guys shooting deer with Savages at 300 yards using Lightfield Slugs. They are heavier than 300 gr., and you'll note that most shotgun slugs are "blunt objects" and are designed primarily for <100 yard use to knock stuff DOWN!

    You said you wanted a project. Well,,, Welcome to Project HELL! We can keep you busy for at least 2 years!!!

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    Jason,
    These plastic based slugs are the ticket. The plastic base is a couple thou smaller than the lead and engages the rifleing, thus no leading. With a good scope off a rest you can probably get hole touching accuracy out of the 512 @ 100 yds. Easy to load, no exotic components. If I had it all to over I would load these and forget the rest. This slug has the best chance at 150 yd accuracy as well if recoil allows. Dennis is a great guy so give him a call if you like. He is a bullet wizard. https://www.furycustombullets.com/we.../shotgun-slugs
    Hogtamer, I saw those in the link you posted in an earlier thread "Savage 220 Reloading info". They are heavy but still an option. There isn't much more recoil than what I'm shooting now, those SST slugs hit very hard at both ends. I have a 16oz mercury recoils suppressor in my original 512 which I got after shooting groups of about 50 slugs looking for the most accurate, my shoulder was sore for several days. lol That was even before the SST's & Accu-tips were made.
    Last edited by NyFirefighter357; 11-15-2020 at 10:22 PM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    The STI sabots www.slugsrus.com are the most accurate thing I have loaded so far, and they are supposed to perform well in the Savage guns, but they are heavier than what you propose. I guess you could cast the inserts with some lighter metal and get the weight down.

    I turn my Brass Inserts on a lathe and you could do something similar with Aluminum or a lighter metal. Also the insert nose could be shaped for a higher BC. They have pics on their site with different shaped inserts people have tried.

    Also accuracy with Lightfield Slugs should be considered. There are videos on Youtube of guys shooting deer with Savages at 300 yards using Lightfield Slugs. They are heavier than 300 gr., and you'll note that most shotgun slugs are "blunt objects" and are designed primarily for <100 yard use to knock stuff DOWN!

    You said you wanted a project. Well,,, Welcome to Project HELL! We can keep you busy for at least 2 years!!!

    Randy
    Randy, Those are what I call the buck hammer design. I know you turn those but what if they were cast or turned from zinc? https://www.boatzincs.com/zinc_rods-specs.html
    The 12ga ones they sell the SPW are 463gr + 77gr for the sabot for a total of 540gr.
    The same slug in Zn would be about 278gr for a total 355gr and one might even be able to hollow out the center of the base some and reduce it 50gr or so.
    I have to look at the Lightfield slugs as well I saw at the LGS they were selling Browning slugs saying they shoot the same maybe rebranded.
    Last edited by NyFirefighter357; 11-15-2020 at 08:32 PM.

  6. #6
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    Who's casting RB for shotguns with rifled barrel? I also have a choke tube barrel for my Rem 1100, I can also get a rifled choke but don't think it will shoot as accurately as the full rifled barrels.

  7. #7
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    The ones in teh pic above are turned brass on the left and cast ww on the right. Pretty sure you could cast zinc in the same mould.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  8. #8
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpeg 
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ID:	271570RBs are good to 50 - 75 yds then tend to make their own way. As for zinc I worked hard developing a zinc full bore slug right down to the pressure testing. Ended up with a 477 grain .731 "zlug" pushed to 1700 fps. That's a handful. Tried other slugs including a .575 Minie and round balls. The zlugs provided respectable accuracy but for me at age 67 but unacceptable recoil. Killed pigs and deer, Blood trail killed a hog and a few saplings beyond. I believe the smaller the projectile the less acceptable zinc is for hunting as mass declines. I do have a couple hundred loaded just in case I ever need to stop a humvee. The alloy I used was zamak 3 that is 4% aluminum.
    Last edited by Hogtamer; 11-16-2020 at 05:56 PM.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
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    What did you use as the heat source to melt the zinc? It needs a higher temp', correct?

    I've kicked around the idea of making some LEE 7/8oz slugs out of zinc. Of course they won't be 7/8oz anymore and that's exactly the point.

  10. #10
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    Coleman propane stove and a propane torch. Once it gets hot the stove works fine. Don't try this in aluminum molds. Zamak 3 weights about 63% of lead
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpeg 
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ID:	271570RBs are good to 50 - 75 yds then tend to make their own way. As for zinc I worked hard developing a zinc full bore slug right down to the pressure testing. Ended up with a 477 grain .731 "zlug" pushed to 1700 fps. That's a handful. Tried other slugs including a .575 Minie and round balls. The zlugs provided respectable accuracy but for me at age 67 but unacceptable recoil. Killed pigs and deer, Blood trail killed a hog and a few saplings beyond. I believe the smaller the projectile the less acceptable zinc is for hunting as mass declines. I do have a couple hundred loaded just in case I ever need to stop a humvee. The alloy I used was zamak 3 that is 4% aluminum.
    Hogtamer, What gun/barrel combination are you using?

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master
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    So many good old threads about casting for shotgun. I've given up on the cast slug, but some these new ones look spectacular. For me, I've stopped at the round ball. My load does everything I want or need. Gives fantastic accuracy, mild recoil, and awesome terminal performance. I did write a thread long ago and it's still in the archive - "12 ga. round ball success". When I did the first R&D on this, I was using (still use) a .702 custom mold from Jeff Tanner Molds. If I were to invest in the project again, I think I might go for a .700 or .699 RB mold. Lots of ways to skin a cat.............

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    USH bull barrel and 870 w/hastings cantilevered barrel.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    USH bull barrel and 870 w/hastings cantilevered barrel.
    Ultra Slug Hunter 12ga twist rate is 1-35"

    Hastings rifled barrel Twist rate: 1-in-34" (12ga)

    Hastings rifled barrel Twist rateand 1-in-26" (20ga)

    Marlin 512 Twist rate: 1:28" 12ga

    Savage 220 Twist rate: 1 in 24" 20ga
    Last edited by NyFirefighter357; 11-17-2020 at 06:53 PM.

  15. #15
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    Round balls shoot as good or better than anything I've ever tried in a fully rifled barrel, including SST slugs. However, they are not what I would choose with the intention of sighting in zeroed at 150 yards. Being heavy, they are slower, and being a ball, they slow down quickly. They shoot flat to 100 yards, then drop quickly. There is only one real slug sabot I'm aware of, sold by BPI. I've yet to hear anyone get any real accuracy with them. They are a poor design.

    I've never messed with the Russian slug molds, but I have loaded the attached tail style slugs. I've loaded the Lightfield slug, as well as two from BPI the DSG-12, and the LBC sabot. Of them, the LBC sabot was my favorite. It was very accurate, and data had them going very fast, 1950 fps fast. There's two issues with them, inherent in all push-in tail wad slugs. #1 they are horrible ballistics-wise. Based on the trajectory, I estimated the BC of that slug around .05 or .06. By comparison, a .735" ball should have a BC around .1! #2 their wads can fall off, and that obviously destroys accuracy. Sometimes you get a good batch, sometimes you don't. I've seen on this board people using various tricks to help, like gluing them in.

    I feel 20 gauge is the way to go if you really want to get some range with a slug. You can cast slugs that have a semblance to a modern bullet, and the weight is still not too bad. I hate variables, and wads/sabot's are variables. If I really wanted a long range slug gun, I'd be looking at fully rifled 20 gauge, something like that Savage 220, and I would be shooting full bore diameter bullets. Zinc bullets would not be a bad idea here. No need for expansion, and this is coming from a guy who likes his hollow points even in 45 caliber. At 62 caliber, 20 gauge has all the diameter I already want. I've got the same 12 gauge mold as Hogtamer. In lead, it weights about 770 grains, and is a real bear to shoot. The 20 gauge equivalent would be the Accurate 62-425S. Even in lead, 425 grains isn't horrible, and in Zinc it could be fun.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I feel 20 gauge is the way to go if you really want to get some range with a slug. You can cast slugs that have a semblance to a modern bullet, and the weight is still not too bad. I hate variables, and wads/sabot's are variables. If I really wanted a long range slug gun, I'd be looking at fully rifled 20 gauge, something like that Savage 220, and I would be shooting full bore diameter bullets. Zinc bullets would not be a bad idea here. No need for expansion, and this is coming from a guy who likes his hollow points even in 45 caliber. At 62 caliber, 20 gauge has all the diameter I already want. I've got the same 12 gauge mold as Hogtamer. In lead, it weights about 770 grains, and is a real bear to shoot. The 20 gauge equivalent would be the Accurate 62-425S. Even in lead, 425 grains isn't horrible, and in Zinc it could be fun.
    I think your right, a full bore 20ga in Zn would be easier. I still would like to make something work for the 12ga. as well.

  17. #17
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    You can certainly get great accuracy in 12 gauge, and you can get better performance on game than many factory slugs, however, the components just are not there for a homemade slug that will match an SST as far as flat trajectory and still be accurate. The only sabot for a 50 caliber bullet is junk, and using a lead shot wad needs a bullet around .680". By then you are so heavy, you would not be able to get the high velocity without tearing your shoulder apart. The problem I foresee with a zinc casted version of the Lyman sabot slug, is that they are known to have the skirt break apart with hard lead alloys. I would think a zinc alloy may also break apart.

    Long story short, there is no replacement for the factory loaded sabot slugs. No good sabot is available to reloaders at this time. You can certainly match the accuracy, but you won't be seeing 2000 fps with them. In the case of that LBC sabot I listed at 1950 fps, it is so un-aerodynamic that the speed is wasted.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Long story short, there is no replacement for the factory loaded sabot slugs. No good sabot is available to reloaders at this time. You can certainly match the accuracy, but you won't be seeing 2000 fps with them. In the case of that LBC sabot I listed at 1950 fps, it is so un-aerodynamic that the speed is wasted.
    I agree.

    I also went looking for the LBC slugs and sabots, they are all sold out. I would think if I cound get the sabots I could work on a mould design to replace the poor slug design.

  19. #19
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    The slug isn't the problem with the LBC sabot. In fact, I rather like that design. It doesn't cause a crazy amount of damage, but it penetrates really well. What is causing all the drag is the attached tail wad. All the attached tail slugs share the same issue, although the LBC is particularly bad due to the relatively light weight.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    What about the RSS sabot, it's similar to the Hornady design and cast a Zn bullet to fit? https://www.ballisticproducts.com/RS...ctinfo/322RSS/

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check