Mixing glass or shrapnel in with alloy?

[emt1581]

Hollow point cast bullets don't compare to their jacketed cousins in defensive performance. But what if they had some glass shards or shrapnel sprinkled into the alloy...maybe in the nose of the mold? To be clear, I'm suggesting truncated cones or round nose molds. Only thing that would determine effectiveness is if the alloy was soft enough to deform a bit when penetrating clothing and make the steel/glass protrude even more through it's path. To be honest, not sure if/how it would work but has this idea been tried when casting and/or in gel?

Thanks!

[RU shooter]

Just how would one mix in that sorta thing . It would all float on top of the pot even with a ladle pour it would end up at the base of the bullet when poured into the mould . Imo not a good idea . A cast HP from the right alloy going the right speed to make it expand is hard to beat no gimmicks needed

[NoZombies]

I'm not sure what you mean that hollow point lead bullets don't compare to jacketed.

It takes some work to find a load that gives expansion in some of the lower velocity calibers, but generally JHP's have problems in those same calibers.

[joatmon]

Dang, this should be good. Don't think I want to go to trial on this!

[jimkim]

Cast them hard, patch or PC them and push them fast, and damage should be comparable. They just need to hold together and be doing 2200fps or faster when they hit flesh. At least that's what an "expert" claimed is the magic velocity for a big wound channel.

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk

[emt1581]

Just how would one mix in that sorta thing . It would all float on top of the pot even with a ladle pour it would end up at the base of the bullet when poured into the mould . Imo not a good idea . A cast HP from the right alloy going the right speed to make it expand is hard to beat no gimmicks needed

Maybe I could have used better wording. What I envisioned was taking an empty cavity, sprinkle in some glass/shrapnel, then pour some lead in on top of it. It'd cool to fast for the fragments to float to the top (which in this case would be the tail of the bullet).

As far as expansion....not from what I've seen and even when it expanded, it's not even remotely similar in wound channel capability as the copper jacket acting like claws against muscle/organ tissue. Now if I'm mistaken, please share or link to some pics of it.

Thanks

[emt1581]

I'm not sure what you mean that hollow point lead bullets don't compare to jacketed.

It takes some work to find a load that gives expansion in some of the lower velocity calibers, but generally JHP's have problems in those same calibers.

Lower velocity as in 9mm vs .223? or are you talking something different? From what I've seen JHP's do pretty well in gel.

[NoZombies]

Lower velocity as in 9mm vs .223? or are you talking something different? From what I've seen JHP's do pretty well in gel.

I meant like .38 special and .32 long. I've never had any difficulty getting things like 9mm HP's to expand.

Here's a little of one member's work with .45 ACP:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post5007330

[ShooterAZ]

Imagine what glass shards and shrapnel imbedded in cast boolits could do to a fine rifle or pistol barrel. Probably not a good idea IMHO.

[JohnSmiles]

Jacketed bullets are usually pure lead in a copper jacket. The jacket simply prevents lead fouling at higher velocities.
The lead HP itself would do just as much damage with or without the copper jacket, all other factors being the same.
Save yourself a potentially agonizing court battle and stick to the basics.
At least until the zombies appear....

[emt1581]

Imagine what glass shards and shrapnel imbedded in cast boolits could do to a fine rifle or pistol barrel. Probably not a good idea IMHO.

A modern gun that's barrel allows the nose of a bullet to touch the sides of the barrel?

[emt1581]

I meant like .38 special and .32 long. I've never had any difficulty getting things like 9mm HP's to expand.

Here's a little of one member's work with .45 ACP:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post5007330

Appreciate the link. I didn't see any gel blocks but admittedly I didn't read beyond the pics either. I see petals for sure which is definitely new to me. But I don't see anything pointy/sharp that would rip quite like copper jacketing.

Thanks!

[emt1581]

Jacketed bullets are usually pure lead in a copper jacket. The jacket simply prevents lead fouling at higher velocities.
The lead HP itself would do just as much damage with or without the copper jacket, all other factors being the same.
Save yourself a potentially agonizing court battle and stick to the basics.
At least until the zombies appear....

So you're saying the jacket provides no real advantage to organ/tissue damage over cast? I'd love to see some gel tests that compare traditional defense JHP side by side with cast HP in regard to the wound channel.

[Bloodman14]

That has got to be the the most legally dangerous and morally irresponsible question I have ever seen posted on a public forum. Can you possibly be considering doing such a thing?! This is tantamount to premeditation, and will land you behind bars for the rest of your life if you were to deploy such ammunition in a handload. For the most part, lawyers are NOT our friends; an anti-gun lawyer would have a field day with this. I am not suggesting banning the OP, but, I would definitely delete this entire thread before it gets too far.

[porthos]

i don't think that you would find a lawyer to defend you in court

[country gent]

Old technologies will aid in casts performance. A paper patched soft lead hollow point bullet will perform very well at moderate velocities. Casting bullets to fragment also works. Another might be to add a buckshot pellet to the hollow point.

When a bullet fragments then the pieces not only open more but travel in a farther radius. a 100 grn bullet that fragments into several pieces will produce a better wound channel. Think bout the glasser slugs with a jacket and shot core.

[emt1581]

That has got to be the the most legally dangerous and morally irresponsible question I have ever seen posted on a public forum. Can you possibly be considering doing such a thing?! This is tantamount to premeditation, and will land you behind bars for the rest of your life if you were to deploy such ammunition in a handload. For the most part, lawyers are NOT our friends; an anti-gun lawyer would have a field day with this. I am not suggesting banning the OP, but, I would definitely delete this entire thread before it gets too far.

I asked about the logistics of it. I don't have a use for such an animal personally. I carry JHP in most of my carry guns, which are specifically designed to do exactly what I was aiming at logistically with the question. Save for Jersey, I'm not aware of anywhere in my AO that pitches much of a fit about JHP's legally speaking. A good shoot is a good shoot in the court cases I've sat in on. My hopes are this, at the very least, continues to be responses on why this is a bad idea for logistical/functional reasons instead of continuing on the route of legality.

[emt1581]

Old technologies will aid in casts performance. A paper patched soft lead hollow point bullet will perform very well at moderate velocities. Casting bullets to fragment also works. Another might be to add a buckshot pellet to the hollow point.

When a bullet fragments then the pieces not only open more but travel in a farther radius. a 100 grn bullet that fragments into several pieces will produce a better wound channel. Think bout the glasser slugs with a jacket and shot core.

That pellet idea is interesting, how would that work in practice though...getting the pellet in place?

EDIT: Also, designing the cast bullet to fragment, how is that done? Haven't seen any molds that talk about it.

Thanks!

[bedbugbilly]

If it were even possible, if used in a SD round, I would like to hear your defense for doing it when a team of lawyers representing the individual you used it on - or his surviving family, sues you, which is a very common thing. Even if ruled a justifiable shooting - the bullets will be examined and eyebrows would be raised. Not unlike why explosive rounds were banned by the Geneva Convention. Just sayin' . . . .

[emt1581]

If it were even possible, if used in a SD round, I would like to hear your defense for doing it when a team of lawyers representing the individual you used it on - or his surviving family, sues you, which is a very common thing. Even if ruled a justifiable shooting - the bullets will be examined and eyebrows would be raised. Not unlike why explosive rounds were banned by the Geneva Convention. Just sayin' . . . .

Once again, I was asking about logistics, not legality.