Mixing glass or shrapnel in with alloy?

[mehavey]

What I envisioned was taking an empty cavity, sprinkle in some glass/shrapnel . . .

Don't even think about it,
...much less post in a public forum.
The Internet never forgets.
Drop it now.

[emt1581]

Don't even think about it,
...much less post in a public forum.
The Internet never forgets.
Drop it now.

And now I see why no one knows the answer in regard to doing it. Never heard of constructive possession (in regard to some sort of intent to illegally weaponize a bullet) being used even remotely close to a cast bullet topic but damn it if I didn't do it!!

Ok, fair enough. I'll accept the lack of a straight answer due to everyone fearing the question.

[mehavey]

[emt1581]

HEY! Careful with those glasses!! We don't need anyone calling the internet police on us if one of them breaks and we also have bullet molds!!!

...

[Winger Ed.]

I wouldn't bother with all that.

If ya want a hollow point to open up more: cast it with a softer alloy, powder coat it, and push it faster.
If that doesn't get ya where you want to go--- do the same with a bigger case & larger caliber.

[mehavey]

If ya want a hollow point to open up more: cast it with
a softer alloy, powder coat it, and push it faster.

See http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post5001471

[longbow]

If you want an HP boolit that fragments that's easy... cast it hard!

I have the Mihec version of the H&G #503 with 3 HP pins, one being penta. When cast from ACWW and shot into water jugs or expansion testing media the entire nose blows off leaving only the base at the bottom of the HP cavity. Granted, my testing was done from a .44 mag. Marlin so velocity somewhat higher than handgun velocity but I suspect any large cavity HP boolit cast hard would do very much the same at handgun velocity and close range which is what SD is.

Also, for rifle but the Ness safety bullet was the same idea. They were to be cast from brittle alloy so they simply exploded on contact with about anything minimizing the chances of ricochet.

Easy enough to test for your gun, just get some hard cast HP boolits and try them out.

As for the glass/shrapnel idea, I'll agree that it isn't likely to work and you risk the possibility of damage to your barrel if it doesn't stay where you want it. You would need lead to "soak" through the "stuff" you put in the mould to hold it together then you would also be depending on expansion to expose those sharp edges. Much easier I think to use a large cavity/thin wall HP boolit cast from hard alloy to fragment and leave a ragged nose on the remaining boolit to tear through or use a properly designed HP for expansion at your velocity and of course cast from a malleable alloy to ensure expansion without fragmentation.

Just my opinion.

Longbow

[M-Tecs]

I haven't seen so much misinformation and lack of understanding of the mechanics of wound channels since the MSM convinced the sheeple that Winchester Black Talons cuts like a buzz saw.

The one area that does have some merit if increased fragmentation. That can be done with various bullet designs like the Glasser Safety Slugs or relatively heavy materials like copper/brass, lead pellets., tungsten or depleted uranium. Light items like glass not so much.

The how and why's of wound channels here.

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady...0%99s%20energy.

https://www.everydaymarksman.co/mark...al-ballistics/

https://ammo.com/articles/handgun-wo...-factors-guide

http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf

[poppy42]

I don’t think putting glass shards in a cast bullet is logistically possible. As far as legal as others said I don’t see is there being any difference between doing that and making a mercury tipped bullet or one that was dipped in poison. A very bad idea to even attempt! Furthermore it probably shouldn’t even be discussed on an open forum!
As for Cast Bullets not expanding and not being effective for self defense, let’s not forget that arguably one of the best self defense rounds for 38 special is the so-called FBI load which was if I remember correctly 160 grain hollowpoint semi-wadcutter! Unless you’re talking about 38 special plus P ammunition it’s still in my opinion the best self defense round for 38 special! IMHO Discussions like this serve no purpose on this form

[Bloodman14]

It isn't the question we fear, emt1581, it's the answer. If this is an academic question, as someone said, 'try it and see'. As far as using them? I wouldn't.

[44Blam]

I remember "frangible rounds" back in the day. I don't even know if they make them anymore. I think that is what OP is thinking.
The frangible rounds were a copper jacket with a bunch of ceramic / glass inside so they were super light and would go really fast. They also wouldn't go through multiple layers of drywall. So, kind of apartment safe home defense.

I have no idea if this is still legal or legal wherever OP is...

Those are kind of a specific sort of round and don't really live in the same world as cast boolits...

[M-Tecs]

I remember "frangible rounds" back in the day. I don't even know if they make them anymore. I think that is what OP is thinking.
The frangible rounds were a copper jacket with a bunch of ceramic / glass inside so they were super light and would go really fast. They also wouldn't go through multiple layers of drywall. So, kind of apartment safe home defense.

I have no idea if this is still legal or legal wherever OP is...

Those are kind of a specific sort of round and don't really live in the same world as cast boolits...

That would be the Glaser Safety Slug

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...-self-defense/

According to the Cor-Bon website, the Glaser Safety Slug “was designed in response to the possibility of having to use a handgun on an airplane by the Sky Marshals. The concerns at the time were over-penetration on soft tissue and ricochets on hard surfaces and possible excess penetration.” According to online sources, the Glaser was designed by Jack Canon, with the original loads produced under the banner of Deadeye Associates. In 2002 Cor-Bon purchased the company and has been manufacturing the ammunition ever since.

The Glaser Safety Slug, in its current form, is a bullet with a thin-copper jacket capped with a spherical, polymer tip that provides a bullet profile very similar to an FMJ (full-metal-jacket) projectile. Behind this polymer cap is the hollow core of the bullet, which is filled with either No. 6 lead shot (Safety Slug Silver) or No. 12 lead shot (Safety Slug Blue). When the Glaser Safety Slug—Blue or Silver—impacts soft tissue, the bullet ruptures immediately, releasing the lead shot. The jacket fragments will penetrate to between 1 to 4 inches, and the No. 12 shot will push as deep as 6 inches, with the No. 6 shot going as deep as 8, depending on the cartridge. The shot also radiates outward in a cone that can be as wide as 4 to 5 inches.

[Winger Ed.]

I remember "frangible rounds" back in the day. I don't even know if they make them anymore. .

I think I remember someone making a version of those to market for target shooting in lead free indoor ranges.
They were more or less copper powder compressed into something like a glorified dirt clod.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/lodge...0inner%20round.

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2...os-cons-myths/

https://ammo.com/bullet-type/frangible

[wch]

[QUOTE=joatmon;5032384]Dang, this should be good. Don't think I want to go to trial on this![/QUO

You're right, the prosecutor would have you "cast" as a maniac.

[kevin c]

My understanding of the effectiveness of hunting bullets that put down animals immediately is that, excepting shots that hit brain or bone, it's related to energy transfer causing hydrostatic shock, and that a big meplat transfers the high kinetic energy of a fast moving and/or heavy bullet the best. I imagine self defense bullets would be subject to the same ballistic physical and physiologic parameters.

Pistol rounds being inherently underpowered compared to rifle bullets, mushrooming hollow point designs which effectively give the bullet a huge meplat are used to improve the energy dump. The petals are the result of the need for the jackets to split all around to let the soft lead core expand. The points on those petals were not the primary goal of the design, and, as far as I know, aren't contributing much to whether the round is going to be effective for its intended purpose. In other words, the "Black Talon" press may be not much more than marketing hype; if it was ever effective at all (and I don't know the data) I'd think it was the mushrooming of the bullet rather than any points "clawing at muscle/organ tissue".

So, as far as ballistics go, any bullet produced with the suggested additives doesn't strike me as useful for self defense. As far as practical production, it sounds problematic. As far as liability goes, it'd be indefensible. As far as ethics and morality go, I wouldn't touch it.

And as far as your language goes, it'd be way too easy for anybody unsympathetic to your curiosity to throw out the word "bloodthirsty".

[Edward]

I asked about the logistics of it. I don't have a use for such an animal personally. I carry JHP in most of my carry guns, which are specifically designed to do exactly what I was aiming at logistically with the question. Save for Jersey, I'm not aware of anywhere in my AO that pitches much of a fit about JHP's legally speaking. A good shoot is a good shoot in the court cases I've sat in on. My hopes are this, at the very least, continues to be responses on why this is a bad idea for logistical/functional reasons instead of continuing on the route of legality.

With said ammo it will (NEVER) be a good shoot and yup delete this crap !/Ed

[Edward]

And now I see why no one knows the answer in regard to doing it. Never heard of constructive possession (in regard to some sort of intent to illegally weaponize a bullet) being used even remotely close to a cast bullet topic but damn it if I didn't do it!!

Ok, fair enough. I'll accept the lack of a straight answer due to everyone fearing the question.

You got the answer consistently the same ,the truth is it is a stupid question !!!!!!!!!!!!/Ed

[jonp]

Just how would one mix in that sorta thing . It would all float on top of the pot even with a ladle pour it would end up at the base of the bullet when poured into the mould . Imo not a good idea . A cast HP from the right alloy going the right speed to make it expand is hard to beat no gimmicks needed

is that true? If you put the glass into the mold first I think the lead is heavy enough to keep it in the nose. I don't think that it would be worth the effort, though

As for the legality in court if forced to use one in a self defense scenario, who actually knows since no-one I'm aware of has been prosecuted beyond the legal standard in the "reloaded ammo" scenario despite dire warnings to the contrary. I can't see much difference between casting solids or making HP's as you are taking an extra step there, too. As for me, I would probably try it just to see if it could work but i wouldn't carry such rounds myself as I can't see cast not being up to the job of disabling someone enough for you to escape the situation.

[Lloyd Smale]

just coat them with alox. Even a non lethal hit would be about impossible to prevent from getting infected.