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Thread: Hornady 110 RN in 30 Carbine

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hornady 110 RN in 30 Carbine

    Does anyone know if the Hornady 110 RN expand well at 30 carbine velocities?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Are you speaking of the FMJ 110 gr. RN? I've loaded many hundreds of them, and would say that there is very little expansion unless hitting a steel plate. They also made a SN version that will expand, but not a real mushroom, depending on what it hits.

  3. #3
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    I am referring to the Hornady 110 gr round nose soft point. The Hornady manual states that they are designed to expand from 1800 to 3100 fps which leads me to believe that they won’t do well in the carbine.

  4. #4
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    Your observation and estimates are astute. I got my first carbine in around 1970 from the DCM for $20, followed shortly by a Lee Loader to reload for it. There are lots of folks who cuss and discuss the carbine and its round. Personally, I think it's great for self-defense due to being semi-auto and having big magazines, and I load mine held in reserve for that purpose with the 110 gr. SP -- but the FMJ worked pretty well on many enemies of the Republic. However, the expansion does leave a lot to be desired in the Carbine. For some years the 110 gr. bullets were very "in style" for .30-06 shooters who used them for plinking and small game, for which they worked quite well, and I can readily believe that they easily got 3,000 FPS out of them in the '06. But, not the carbine. Again, the FMJ needs to smack something really hard to deform at all, and the SP doesn't expand much in soft tissue at Carbine velocities. Here's my Home Defense carbine:

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    I might add that despite the expansion problem, as a teenager I knew an old man in his middle 70s, where I am now, who got his deer every year with a .30 Cal. M1 Carbine using FMJ ammo. He favored it because of its light weight and fast repeat shots.

  5. #5
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    You might try the Hornady 90gr XTP's:

    30 Cal .309 90 gr XTP®
    Item #31000 | 100/Box

    There's the Speer 115gr HP also
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010935978?pid=336780

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I have to try those 90 gr XTPs! Larry Gibson has a dynamite load with them and my early Inland shows great promise in the accuracy department!

    Three44s
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  7. #7
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    Hodgdons load data show velocities from 1800 to 2000 with this bullet.
    Expansion should not be a problem at these velocities.

  8. #8
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    I loaded them to 1900+ fps out of an M1 carbine (yes, I had a chronograph back in the early '70s) and did shoot a couple black tail deer with them. I did not find them satisfactory as there did not appear to be any expansion [both bullets were through and trough]. Testing in wet newsprint showed marginal expansion out to 50 yards or so and little to none after that. I quit using them and began using the Hornady and Speer 100 gr half jackets. Those performed well in deer, rabbits and coyote. I pushed those at 1950 fps. Then I started casting bullets for the 30 Carbine and used those. These days if jacketed bullets are to be used I recommend the Hornady/Speer half jackets or the Hornady 90 gr .308 XTP.

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    Larry Gibson

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    ― Nikola Tesla

  9. #9
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    I have no experience shooting game with the Hornady 100 RN.
    As always, I listen to Larry. he has a lot of experience with the M1 carbine.
    I do have some Speer 110 gr HPs loaded for the Carbine.
    Here again, I have no experience shooting deer with this bullet but I would assume they would expand more than the RN bullets.

  10. #10
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    That Speer 110 HP is a good bullet for the M1 carbine IF it feeds reliably. It doesn't with many unaltered M1 carbines. I got it to feed reliably on a couple shooter M1 Carbines by slightly altering and polishing the feed ramp. On a pristine original that is worth a lot these days in original condition I wouldn't but on a shooter I've no problem with altering it. I never shot any deer with the Speer 110 HP but it performed quite well on rabbits and coyote. Should be a good bullet for PD also but reliability of function is the key there.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  11. #11
    Boolit Master 35 Whelen's Avatar
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    Regarding the Hornady 110 gr. RN's, how long ago did you test expansion, Larry? I ask because bullets nowadays are so much better than they were 50 or even 40 years ago. Hornady pretty much redesigned their hunting bullets when they introduced their Interlock line and maybe they changed their 110 gr. RN as well. They now offer the .30 Carbine in their Critical Defense line and if gel testing is any indication of performance, it looks really good. Actually Lucky gunner gel tested the Critical Defense as well as Federal 110 gr. SP and S&B 110 gr. SP. All expanded nicely and the bullets held together and penetrated well. I load Hornady and Remington 110 gr. SP's, but have yet to test expansion. After deer season ends I intend to load some down to mimic 50 and 100 yd. impact velocities and shoot them into my water set up.

    Regarding the Speer HP's I've been loading them too and like Larry, found them and 3118 HP's would rarely feed, then I found a very simple solution. I lay a flat piece of metal across the sizing die opening of my RCBS LAM2 and set one of the HP bullets on it. Then I lower a Lyman #644 top punch over the nose of the bullet and apply pressure to the handle thusly-



    This changes the profile of the nose of the bullet-





    So modified, they feed perfectly, even in the most persnickety carbine I have, an Iver Johnson commemorative.

    Works wonderfully with the 3118 too-



    One can experiment with different top punches, the 644 just happened to be one I had that worked well for me.

    35W
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  12. #12
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    The last test of the Hornady 110 RNSP, along with several other jacketed and cast bullets, was done about 20 years ago. I tested them at 50 yards and 100 yards as I was looking for the best expansion for use on varmints. The test media was sopping wet newsprint. I wasn't aware the 110 RNSP were InterLocks? The bullets I last tested were certainly made after the introduction of the Interlock in 1977. However, things do change so a test using newer made bullets definitely might be in order.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
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  13. #13
    Boolit Master 35 Whelen's Avatar
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    I didn't mean to indicate the little 110 gr. RN's are Interlocks, I don't believe they are. I have quite a few boxes of old Hornady bullets as well as new one's. The newer bullets have a different appearance and profile, at least to my eyes. What I meant was it was perhaps they did some work on the 110 gr. RN.

    35W
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  14. #14
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    Years back, my Uncle Ole ( yes, seriously) used my M1Cabine with my handloads -Hornady 110 RNSP ovcer a case full of 296 to kill
    a 180#( fielddressed) 8 point buck. Shot thru the heart, bullet lodged agains the hide on far side. It was
    perfectly mushroomed to about 45-50 caliber. He followed that shot quickly with one in the neck.
    Deer dropped dead almost on the spot. Point is the Hornady 110 RN thru the heart did mushroom perfectly
    This would have been about 1978 or so.
    beltfed/arnie

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    I'm attempting to send a photograph of the boolit that most nearly approximates the design of the Speer 110 grain jacketed hollow point

  16. #16
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    If you can forgive the quality of the photograph, the cast bullet on the left is from MP molds, and was originally designed for the 327 and 32 h&r Magnums. Cast from my wheel weight,BHN 11 alloy, it weighs about 117 grains, and easily sizes to.309. it has fed in three 30 carbines including an m2. It also excels in the 30 Blackhawk. Another advantage is that downloaded with 820 powder to about 1700 ft in the carbine, and about 1400 in the revolver, it expands very reliably, without leading, when powder coated with Smokes white aluminum powder, although I am sure any of the other varieties would work for that.

    Another great feature of this particular mold is that the len gth, base, and nose configuration all allow it to operate through the Mr.Bulletfeeder,using exactly the same adjustments as for the hornady factory round nose or for the full metal jacket pictured here. That saves a lot of setup time. Since there is no need for any gas check, it is quite a savings over purchasing jacketed bullets as well.
    as many other have mentioned, there doesn't seem to be a problem with the gasport on the m1 carbine using powder coated without a gas check.Mihec offers a four cavity version in 115 grains, which is pictured here, and a very similar one at 100 grains, which also functions flawlessly in the carbine and expands extremely well. They are listed as mode numbers 314-64 0, with the grain weight at the end of the designation.

  17. #17
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    Oh, and I almost forgot to mention they are extraordinary in the original 32 h&r Magnum and 327 Federal Magnums they were designed for!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by beltfed View Post
    Years back, my Uncle Ole ( yes, seriously) used my M1Cabine with my handloads -Hornady 110 RNSP ovcer a case full of 296 to kill
    a 180#( fielddressed) 8 point buck. Shot thru the heart, bullet lodged agains the hide on far side. It was
    perfectly mushroomed to about 45-50 caliber. He followed that shot quickly with one in the neck.
    Deer dropped dead almost on the spot. Point is the Hornady 110 RN thru the heart did mushroom perfectly
    This would have been about 1978 or so.
    beltfed/arnie
    That was 5-6 years after i tested them. Obviously Hornady improved them, which is good. The two deer I shot with them in the early 70s were smaller black tails (probably 125 +/- lbs). Both were behind the leg through and through lung shots. The deer traveled quite a distance before laying down and dying. There was no blood trail at all. Could eat up to the bullet holes as they say as there was little interior damage other than just the bullet hole going through very similar to what the RNFMJ produced. If i weren't so happy with the Hornady 100 gr HJs and the 90 gr XTP I'd try them again.....if i could find any these days.....
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by denul View Post
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    I'm attempting to send a photograph of the boolit that most nearly approximates the design of the Speer 110 grain jacketed hollow point
    What is the make and number of that mould?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  20. #20
    Boolit Master 35 Whelen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    That was 5-6 years after i tested them. Obviously Hornady improved them, which is good. The two deer I shot with them in the early 70s were smaller black tails (probably 125 +/- lbs). Both were behind the leg through and through lung shots. The deer traveled quite a distance before laying down and dying. There was no blood trail at all. Could eat up to the bullet holes as they say as there was little interior damage other than just the bullet hole going through very similar to what the RNFMJ produced. If i weren't so happy with the Hornady 100 gr HJs and the 90 gr XTP I'd try them again.....if i could find any these days.....
    Larry I happened upon a lot of 200 Remington 110 gr. RNSP's on Gunbroker and bought them unopposed for $30, quite a bit cheaper than the elusive Hornady's. There is a box of what I believe to be the same bullets there now- Remington 30 Cal 110 Gr .308 Dia.

    Quote Originally Posted by denul View Post
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    I'm attempting to send a photograph of the boolit that most nearly approximates the design of the Speer 110 grain jacketed hollow point
    I really like that bullet, wish they'd cut the mold to drop the bullets .310" or so.

    I have an NOE mold that casts a similar bullet, but at about .314", so by the time I size it down to .309" the lube grooves don't hold much. I cast some pretty soft and water tested them out of my S&W 32 long and expansion was pretty good, but I'd have to harden them for use at Carbine velocities-





    Impact velocity was 835 fps, not 935, as my crappy handwriting would seem to indicate.

    NOE makes a similar mold that casts .311" bullets, but I dislike their HP system as it doesn't work nearly as well as MP's.

    35W
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check