Quick question regarding the Lee Perfect Powder Measure?

[VariableRecall]

Hey there! I've just got myself a Lee Perfect Powder measure for a great price.
I'm satisfied with it, but a very minor incident has made me wonder if I should trust the stability of a metered dispense of powder, or the simplicity of a digital scale?

As instructed in the manual, I've put my one whole pound of powder through the measure at a series of large 60 grain charges. Then I proceeded to try to tune down to the load I intended to fire in the future, 3.6-3.8 grains of Win231. To double check my measurements, I had a Lyman Digital scale handy to check the weight of what I was dropping. I also have a Lee Safety Scale but I just wanted to try things out in a mock up sort of situation with a batch of cases to fill and eventually dump back into the powder container.

Here was my procedure.

*Release the lock-washer thing and twist the adjustment to the approximate CC setting I had wanted, around 0.33 or so. Lock the washer and keep note of the position.
(This was tricky for me since that small of a measurement was too shallow to be able to see the numbers. )

*Do a test dump, waiting briefly per-portion of the stroke to ensure all the flakes make their way towards where we want them to go.

*Measure on the digital scale to know where I need to tune next, be it more or less CC's.

If I could repeat the desired charge of around 3.7ish grains of powder, I would feel that I'd be comfortable to load it.

I had mock charged about 25 cases measuring the powder every time, when I started to realize the Lyman was reading somewhere around 3.8 to 4.0 grains upon measuring. In response to that, I gently tuned the Powder measure down a teeny bit until it was measuring 3.6-3.7 again.

Still thinking something was up, I went through the re-calibration procedure for the Lyman Digital scale, and I dumped all the cases that had originally read 3.8 grains, and each one measured 3.3 up to the point I had made that adjustment.

Considering such a minor error caused me to undercharge around 10 or so cartridges if it were a real reloading session, should I just put more trust in the Perfect Powder measure to meter out the exact charge weights I need, and put a little less trust in the Lyman Digital Scale? Thankfully, recalibrating it was easy, but now I don't feel as comfortable using it to check my powder load every single time.

Should I avoid repeatedly measuring charges in a Digital Scale?

Overall I'm quite satisfied with the perfect Powder Measure. It made dispensing powder a breeze. I was using the Lee Dippers earlier but .3cc usually leveled out 3.2-3.1 grains of powder, and the next up dipper, 0.5, usually meters out 5.1-5.2 grains of powder. So, it kind of laid on the unhappy middle ground of needing to do a little more twisting with a powder trickler.

[NyFirefighter357]

I have been having problems with a new one as well. I tried several powders and I can't get a consistent charge. Just as I think its working well it throws a bad charge but I'm getting upwards of + or - .6gr inconsistent. It consumed multiple hours of my time before I just gave up on it.

[kungfustyle]

Try dumping about 20 charges before you start adjusting and weighing. Powder needs time to settle. After that you should be good to go. Titan reloading has a powder baffle https://www.titanreloading.com/titan...-powder-baffle that might help. If you are using batteries in your scale can you switch to a power cord or make sure the batteries are fresh. The lee will work but sometimes its like a dog chasing its tail. I used to have one and now I have an RCBS with a small drum and a metering insert that is a dream.

[onelight]

I like Lee tools and have switched to them for most of what I buy now . That said , in my experience bench mounted powder measures can picky about setup and operation , like kungfustyle mentioned you have to give the powder a lot of cycles to get settled and a baffle might help also if you notice static causing powder to stick in the measure wiping with a dryer sheet might help .
My experience with the perfect measure was the same as yours and I had a difficult time getting consistent results I think it lacks the mass to get a good knock when operating to consistently settle the powder and bench mounted it does not get help from from vibration of a press cycling to settle the powder in the chamber and hopper so for me it was a throw and trickle measure . I quickly went back to my Lyman 55 for a bench mounted measure . Also trickling onto a digital scale did not work for me and the Lee scale was accurate but slow to settle down after dropping a charge compared to my other scales .
If I did not have other equipment I could have used the Lee measure and scale to load ammo just as good as anything else , but the perfect powder measure and scale were both slow for me to use for results that satisfied me as to safety and accuracy of the thrown charge.
Use what you have and give it the time it requires to get proper results you can turn out good reloads with it

[Froogal]

The trick for consistency is to thump on the measure with your finger before you dump, and then again after you dump. My perfect powder measure is very consistent using Unique, Trail Boss, Titegroup, HP38, and Longshot.

[bedbugbilly]

VariableRecall - thanks for posting this and to those who answered. I just ordered one of the Lee PPMs to try out. What you describe sort of reminds me of the issues I hd with the older Lee all plastic powder measure (I think they still sell them) that I started out with. I mainly use a powder measure for dumping smaller quantities for pistol cartridges. I think that the responses all have good solid suggestions. I changed to Lyman 55s a long time ago and still have a number of them that I use - and the thing I found that I liked the best about them was the "thumper" - for small charges, it seemed to keep things consistent.

I have no reservations about trying the Lee PPM and am looking forward to getting it and trying it out. You followed exactly what I would do. I am sure that different powders will measure and drop differently - that is a given. I think the comment about the powder having to sit and adjust in the measure is the same thing that I found with the older all plastic Lee measure. But, the more I used it and it became coated with graphite from the powder, the more consistent it got and I'm wondering if that is the case with the new design as well?

Like you, I keep a digital electronic scale next to the measure to double heck. Mine is not an expensive one - a Frankford Arsenal one - and I check often to insure that the powder measure I[m using is dropping consistently. I don't load to max. charges. I find on my small digital scale, just positioning the powder differently in the scale pan can show a variance of .1 - .2 grains. I in turn have checked those drops with my OHaues beam scale and it verified it.

The other day, I was working on loading up some 38 Colt Long cartridges with heeled boolits to try out in a new C & B revolver with a conversion cylinder. I was using a charge of 2.6 grains of Bulls Eye - a powder I have always found to meter very well. I was using my Lyman 55 and just like your experience, I was getting good drops and then they would be off - and that was doing everything consistent and using the thumper the same way each time. I would readjust the meter and it would be fine for a number of drops (checked each one) and then it would drop a load anywhere from + or 1 .2 - .3 grains. My point? You can have problems with any powder measure at times.

On my Lyman 55, I'm going to go back and start from ground zero and start over. It is a good measure but one that I have not used very much so I imagine it may have a quirk or two that I need to figure out.

I have heard a lot of good things about the Lee PPM and I'm looking forward to getting the one I ordered - should be here this next week. The more you use your Lee, I think the better it will get after it gets coated up with the graphite from the powder so things slide smoothly.

I will add this - I am currently using a powder measure stand to hold my measure on the bench - and will use it for the Lee when I get it. It does not get much of any vibration from my single stage press mounted on the bench so I have a feeling a thump with the finger on the Lee would / could help in settling a the powder into the measuring chamber. My old all plastic Lee measure (back in MI and Im in AZ for winter) I mount directly into the Lee powder through/expander die with an adapter. I use a Lee classic 4 hole turret back in MI, and I think that the motion and vibration of the turret press, as the casing advances to the next die, acts as a "thumper" on that particular measure as I get very consistent drops with it.

[onelight]

Good post bedbugbilly .
I might add that the Lee perfect powder measure I had was the version they were selling about 10 years ago.
I use and really like the auto drum and the pro auto disk both good powder measures on the presses I use them on . For bench mounted I get the best results with the Lyman 55 with the knocker been using it for 45 years.

[BamaNapper]

The trick for consistency is to thump on the measure with your finger before you dump, and then again after you dump. My perfect powder measure is very consistent using Unique, Trail Boss, Titegroup, HP38, and Longshot.

Exactly. Mine's bench mounted. Handle up, 2 taps, handle down, 2 taps. It also provides a short pause. The charges drop consistently whether the hopper is nearly full or nearly empty. If I'm doing small charges, like TiteGroup in 9mm, I'll drop 5 charges and weigh the total, then adjust. I check with a digital typically but the Lee Safety Scale comes out if it's questionable.

[mdi]

The trick to consistent powder charges is consistent operation of the powder measure. If you want to thump the measure at some time during the throw, thump it exactly the same, at the same time every time. If you like to pause at the top of the stroke, pause the same length of time every time. I have had my PPM for many years (purchased in '90?) and have been able to hold charges of less than .1 gr of W231 several times and no more than .2 gr on a "bad" day.

But I have had "problems" with digital scales (owned 3). Often I would weigh a charge, lift the pan and replace it and get a .1 up to a .2 gr difference. Some times when attempting to trickle up a charge one or two flakes would cause the weight to jump .2 grains. (and with the last one, the one I now have, I turned off all fluorescent lighting in my shop, turned off the radio, speakers just 7 ft from my bench, closed all doors windows and turned off any fans. No improvement). I would suggest your variations are mainly coming from your digital scale. Perhaps try the Lee Safety Scale, slower but very accurate/repeatable...

[RedlegEd]

Hi,
I have the Lee PPM, as well as an Ohaus and RCBS powder measure. In my judgement, I think the Lee is just as good, and in some cases, better. What really helps me is having the Quick Change Drum set that I set up for common charges (e.g. 4.0gr Bullseye, 8.0gr Bullseye, etc.) Every time I've used it, it was always spot-on to the set charge. I don't trust the digital scales for powder measuring, so I always verify my charges when I start using an Ohaus/RCBS 505 balance scale, and then occasionally thereafter (maybe every 10 or so cases charged.) Another thing I like about the Lee is that it has a separate powder chamber below the main hopper which (in my mind) eliminates the need for a hopper baffle like in the Ohaus or RCBS.
Ed

[VariableRecall]

I would suggest your variations are mainly coming from your digital scale. Perhaps try the Lee Safety Scale, slower but very accurate/repeatable...

I already have one! The scale is a lot slower but i trust it a LOT more than the digital scale.

Thank you very much for all of the responses!

[VariableRecall]

Try dumping about 20 charges before you start adjusting and weighing. Powder needs time to settle. After that you should be good to go. Titan reloading has a powder baffle https://www.titanreloading.com/titan...-powder-baffle that might help. If you are using batteries in your scale can you switch to a power cord or make sure the batteries are fresh. The lee will work but sometimes its like a dog chasing its tail. I used to have one and now I have an RCBS with a small drum and a metering insert that is a dream.

My Perfect powder measure has the clear half-pound bottle, so unfortunately that baffle won't work. I did make sure that the hopper was around 90% full. It would not change much considering I'm only dropping 3.6 grains at a time.

A product like that would seem quite useful though.

[megasupermagnum]

I think a lot of you have misread what exactly was posted. From what I'm seeing, he set the measure to what the scale said, and dispensed a number of charges, presumably into brass. He then later tried those same charges, which earlier read 3.8 grains, and were now reading 3.3 grains.

The problem is not the powder measure, and it sounds like he is getting very consistent throws from his. The problem is his electronic scale. All of them drift as they warm up. Personally, I will not use them for powder, as they are not reliable for me. My Lee safety scale is every bit as accurate as my RCBS balance scale, although not very fun to use. I use the Lee as a double check, to verify. I recommend you use your Lee scale, and once your powder measure is set, you can trust the measure. It doesn't hurt to check a throw here and there either.

[VariableRecall]

I think a lot of you have misread what exactly was posted. From what I'm seeing, he set the measure to what the scale said, and dispensed a number of charges, presumably into brass. He then later tried those same charges, which earlier read 3.8 grains, and were now reading 3.3 grains.

The problem is not the powder measure, and it sounds like he is getting very consistent throws from his. The problem is his electronic scale. All of them drift as they warm up. Personally, I will not use them for powder, as they are not reliable for me. My Lee safety scale is every bit as accurate as my RCBS balance scale, although not very fun to use. I use the Lee as a double check, to verify. I recommend you use your Lee scale, and once your powder measure is set, you can trust the measure. It doesn't hurt to check a throw here and there either.

I'd say that if anything, this mild incident has boosted my trust in my new PPM. Now, it only makes me a little worried about the ammo that I've double checked with the Digital scale. I have a feeling that some of them may have been undercharged a little; probably to 3.3 like in my previous observation. Plenty to get them out of the barrel, but enough to deviate by 50 or so feet per second on the range.

[toallmy]

As mentioned above I have used a few different little battery powered scales , and found them to drift at random enough that I won't even use them for weight separating cast boolits . Well my lee perfect powder measure throws a wild charge every once in a while also so I just use it to drop a change and trickle up to the desired charge , I have trust issues . I have grown to love my lee pro- auto disk , as much as I loved and trusted my little dandy powder measure for small charges .
The worst thing I ever did to my younger brothers was to give them the lee scale , it almost turned them against loading their own although it's on the money with it's weight it demands patience .

[SweetMk]

I bought a Hornady powder measure probably 20 years ago,,
when the hopper was full, it would throw 1/2 grain more than when the hopper was half full,,

Somewhere, I saw a powder measure with a "baffle",, the baffle supported the weight of the powder.
I cut a piece of heavy card stock (cardboard) to a circle slightly larger than the hopper.
I bent the cardboard into an inverted "V" shape, and at the bottom of the "V" legs, I trimmed the circle back about 1/4 inch, so the powder could pass.
Well, now, that powder measure throws the same weight, with the hopper full, or 1/4 full,,
the baffle always lets the same amount of powder get into the measuring area,,

I just used that measure to load over 100 of the 300 Blackout rounds,, I was checking the weight about every 15 rounds, I have not reloaded in a few years, so mostly, I was checking my technique,,
The weights came out as perfect as I could ask for,,

That baffle was VERY important when I was loading 300 Win Mag rounds,, because LOTS of powder went through the measure.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I too suggest that your digital scale is the problem. When I set up for smaller charges (under 10 grains?) I throw ten charges into the pan of my old RCBS 505 and make adjustments based on average weights. I have both the Lee Perfect Powder Measure and the newer Lee DELUXE Perfect Powder Measure along with an old Herters, an RCBS Uniflow, a couple old Bonanza's (like the RCBS Little Dandy) and an old Pacific. The Lee DELUXE may be the most accurate while the Lee Perfect is the easiest to use. Digital scales, unless VERY expensive seem to 'drift' a tenth or so in use, so while OK for sorting bullets and cartridge cases I avoid them for powder charges.

[onelight]

I have to correct my earlier post #4 , the measure I had in the past was the older Lee all plastic measure this current model looks like a much better measure than the one I had and looks like it might be a bench model of the auto drum that works well for me

[AABEN]

LEE is 99% of my reloading equipment BUT my powder measure are Lyman #55 I have three of them once set they stay !! On your scale need to be on about 30min before using and the room temp needs to be keep the same and no fan on and no wind for they are sensitive to all of that GOOD LUCK

[robg]

ive used a lyman 55 for 30+ years but i got a lee powder measure as it works better with flake and stick powders .