Flintlock build...........maybe

[abunaitoo]

So, over 10 years ago, I bought a Traditions Flintlock rifle kit.
First time trying to do something like this.
Has anyone made one of these????
If I remember correct, I did fit the lock to it sometime in the past.
Other than that, nothing.
Took it out again today, and thought I should, maybe, try to start on it again.
Then I remembered the forearm and rear stock, with the pins in, didn't line up.
Easy fix, but never got around to doing it.
Looking at it, I want to do a "modification" to the way the stock goes together.
It has a brass plate that goes between the two stock parts.
I don't like it and want to leave it out.
It's about .075 thick.
I don't see any problem leaving it out.....except........
The hole for the nose cap are a tiny bit off.
Probably be better to make a wood spacer to replace the brass one.
But the grain would make it a pain to make.
I've looked on the web and found nothing about doing this.
Just hope I don't mess it up to much.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello abunatoo,

I did a CVA Kentucky years ago.
It turned out nice and really shot well.
I later traded it for a CVA Big Bore Mountain Rifle, .58 cal.
Later in life I purchased what turned out to be a box of parts listed as a kit.
A .32 cal CVA Squirrel Rifle, nothing lined up.
It was so bad I pushed the box under the couch and forgot about it.
Many years later, my son found it and asked if he could put it together.
I told him to go for it, and what resulted is a beautiful little Squirrel Rifle.
Bottom line is if you take your time it will be very nice.

AntiqueSledMan.

[indian joe]

So, over 10 years ago, I bought a Traditions Flintlock rifle kit.
First time trying to do something like this.
Has anyone made one of these????
If I remember correct, I did fit the lock to it sometime in the past.
Other than that, nothing.
Took it out again today, and thought I should, maybe, try to start on it again.
Then I remembered the forearm and rear stock, with the pins in, didn't line up.
Easy fix, but never got around to doing it.
Looking at it, I want to do a "modification" to the way the stock goes together.
It has a brass plate that goes between the two stock parts.
I don't like it and want to leave it out.
It's about .075 thick.
I don't see any problem leaving it out.....except........
The hole for the nose cap are a tiny bit off.
Probably be better to make a wood spacer to replace the brass one.
But the grain would make it a pain to make.
I've looked on the web and found nothing about doing this.
Just hope I don't mess it up to much.

you dont like the brass ---how about a steel spacer ?

[beshears]

Plug and redrill new pin for end cap. Drill for a dowel pin in stock where it goes together and good glue.

[JoeJames]

I built a CVA Frontier rifle kit about 30 or 40 years ago. Only one thing stuck in my memory: it had a Maple stock, and I tried to use some sort of oil based stain. Wrong. It would not penetrate at all; just stayed on the surface. Alcohol or water based stain works much, much better!

[mooman76]

It's a fairly common piece and some people don't care for the brass separator. I don't care for it that much either but I don't mind it that much either. Other boards that deal more with MLs bring it up often and some come up with creative ideas to change it. Try going to muzzleloadingforum.com and see what they have done. The newer kits although there are fewer out there, generally are better to put together. What about putting a piece of wood in the place of the brass and since it is difficult the match, stain the wood in a contrasting color?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I know exactly what you mean about the brass piece looking out of place at that location, which is why I never bought one. Since the CVA stocks are usually made of birch it shouldn't be hard to replace the brass with a piece of birch, as most birch has little to no grain figure and it all finishes out almost white. As noted by JoeJames above, if you want to stain it darker an alcohol based dye works best. I've finished several birch stocks using Lincoln Leather Dye. It looks different on wood than on leather, so you have to experiment in a location that's out of view like a small area of the barrel channel or on a piece of scrap wood.

[abunaitoo]

Plug and redrill new pin for end cap. Drill for a dowel pin in stock where it goes together and good glue.

The end cap on this one has two screws that go into the barrel.
I'm not sure if the two pins along the hand guard might be a problem also.
I'll figure something out.
Stock looks like it's going to take a lots of shaping and sanding.

[mooman76]

CVA stocks weren't made of birch. They used Beech, a common would over in Europe.

[indian joe]

CVA stocks weren't made of birch. They used Beech, a common would over in Europe.

correct !

Tough stuff too
I made up a jig to oil bend a couple of ML stocks that were too straight (used to pound my cheekbone) the "Brailian walnut" worked fine and I had watched a video of an old master gunsmith bending a proper walnut stock off a high class shotgun like a piece of plasticine --- I got that beechwood CVA stock to drop about a half inch but man it took some doin.

[rfd]

almost all the offshore trad ML kits only need a screwdriver to stick together, then load up and make go bang (well, maybe). to make the gun look better, and add some protection, requires sanding and sealing the stock at the least. lots of times some of the parts won't mate well, but can be coerced to fit with some filing, sanding, scraping, even pounding, but essentially it's a screwdriver that's mostly required.

in the case of the traditions kits (spain) they can be hit or miss with regards to parts fitting, but mostly missing and requiring some thinking, improvising, and labor. you do what you gotta do to make it all work reasonably well. after building a dozen or so of different offshore trad ML kit guns, the investarms (rebranded as lyman, DGW, cabelas, etc) are a bit better on the build, specifically because their breech plugs can easily be pulled with proper tools. not so with the spanish guns where their plugs almost seem to be welded on and traditions specifies attempting to pull plugs is tantamount to destroying the gun.

almost all the offshore trad ML kits will sport those patent ante-chamber breeches (that require special attention for fouling control and cleaning), and none of these guns will have much in common with real 18th century firearms, if that even matters to most folks. they all kinda look right from that era, but in reality, nope. doesn't mean that's bad or good as most folks just want them to work and that's where the flintlock versions can be Very hit or miss as lock geometry and parts are typically not that much up to par.

so, it can be kinda important to understand just what yer buying with regards to both the offshore trad ML kits and completed guns. some or a lot of that understanding will lean on yer technical ability and tooling to make "adjustments" both with their build and their shooting. they is what they is, and they can all usually be made to work from reasonably well to extremely well with understanding and time at the least.

[indian joe]

almost all the offshore trad ML kits only need a screwdriver to stick together, then load up and make go bang (well, maybe). to make the gun look better, and add some protection, requires sanding and sealing the stock at the least. lots of times some of the parts won't mate well, but can be coerced to fit with some filing, sanding, scraping, even pounding, but essentially it's a screwdriver that's mostly required.

in the case of the traditions kits (spain) they can be hit or miss with regards to parts fitting, but mostly missing and requiring some thinking, improvising, and labor. you do what you gotta do to make it all work reasonably well. after building a dozen or so of different offshore trad ML kit guns, the investarms (rebranded as lyman, DGW, cabelas, etc) are a bit better on the build, specifically because their breech plugs can easily be pulled with proper tools. not so with the spanish guns where their plugs almost seem to be welded on and traditions specifies attempting to pull plugs is tantamount to destroying the gun.

almost all the offshore trad ML kits will sport those patent ante-chamber breeches (that require special attention for fouling control and cleaning), and none of these guns will have much in common with real 18th century firearms, if that even matters to most folks. they all kinda look right from that era, but in reality, nope. doesn't mean that's bad or good as most folks just want them to work and that's where the flintlock versions can be Very hit or miss as lock geometry and parts are typically not that much up to par.

so, it can be kinda important to understand just what yer buying with regards to both the offshore trad ML kits and completed guns. some or a lot of that understanding will lean on yer technical ability and tooling to make "adjustments" both with their build and their shooting. they is what they is, and they can all usually be made to work from reasonably well to extremely well with understanding and time at the least.

We differ on the breech plug deal (had this conversation before I think ) only time I ever pulled one was on a ruined barrel a bloke gave me to see if I could resurrect it - never saw the point in pulling the plug on a decent gun that was working - no matter

My favourite flinter was a CVA pennsylvana rifle that I converted from percussion - yeah that lock needed some tuning to keep working but it was reliable in competition - (frizzen was soft so it ate flints but it worked) lots of blokes would do that conversion by just sawing off the nipple drum flush - I unsrcrewed the drum and fitted a nice coned touch hole liner - that rifle won some stuff and got lots of comments on how fast it went off - - shooting another flinter I built from cheap bits now - same lock - same setup - gets same comments - after my experience with those two I rate the design and setup of the touch hole liner more important than the lock in getting fast ignition from a flinter.

Halfway through another flinter build now using a CVA kentucky barrel - but going whole hog this time - L&R English style lock with mainspring stirrup and roller frizzen - Davis single set trigger and a nice curly maple stock I saved for the project - stalled at the moment - but will be a nice little light hunting rifle with enough bite for stuff up to goat size - aaaaand might do me ok at the range too.

My original CVA kit came missing some bits - the forend was never pinned to the barrel - no pins or the dovetail pieces in the package - that thing shot fine .

Every CVA kit I ever had (eight I think, all 1987 to 1990 vintage ) had something wrong or bits missing - I thought the Aussie importer was buying factory rejects that were not up to par for the US market ?!!! -- they were dirt cheap at the time, and I never had a CVA barrel that wouldnt shoot right up there with the best expensive stuff .

[rfd]

We differ on the breech plug deal (had this conversation before I think ) only time I ever pulled one was on a ruined barrel a bloke gave me to see if I could resurrect it - never saw the point in pulling the plug on a decent gun that was working - no matter

My favourite flinter was a CVA pennsylvana rifle that I converted from percussion - yeah that lock needed some tuning to keep working but it was reliable in competition - (frizzen was soft so it ate flints but it worked) lots of blokes would do that conversion by just sawing off the nipple drum flush - I unsrcrewed the drum and fitted a nice coned touch hole liner - that rifle won some stuff and got lots of comments on how fast it went off - - shooting another flinter I built from cheap bits now - same lock - same setup - gets same comments - after my experience with those two I rate the design and setup of the touch hole liner more important than the lock in getting fast ignition from a flinter.

Halfway through another flinter build now using a CVA kentucky barrel - but going whole hog this time - L&R English style lock with mainspring stirrup and roller frizzen - Davis single set trigger and a nice curly maple stock I saved for the project - stalled at the moment - but will be a nice little light hunting rifle with enough bite for stuff up to goat size - aaaaand might do me ok at the range too.

My original CVA kit came missing some bits - the forend was never pinned to the barrel - no pins or the dovetail pieces in the package - that thing shot fine .

Every CVA kit I ever had (eight I think, all 1987 to 1990 vintage ) had something wrong or bits missing - I thought the Aussie importer was buying factory rejects that were not up to par for the US market ?!!! -- they were dirt cheap at the time, and I never had a CVA barrel that wouldnt shoot right up there with the best expensive stuff .

there is absolutely ***NO*** need to pull a breech plug ... until you need to. which may be Never. or maybe not.

r.

[Lead pot]

Back in the mid 80's I wanted to go to Alaska for a moose and I wanted to use a Hawken.
Well I build the Hawken but I made it a 58 and I wanted a full stock but I got in a hurry and I used a skillsaw to cut the barrel Chanel well some dust got in my nose and I sneezed and the full stock turned into a 1/2 stock. this why it has a early trigger guard late 1/2 stock.
I wanted this rifle look like it had some age on it. The wood I got up in the UP Michigan coming home from a hunt. For a finish I used a mild acid and put a rosebud on the cutting torch and heated the wood to the finish I wanted and it turned out well and it was sealed with candle wax rubbed in.
I left the barrel in the white to let it turn martially but after all these years it still is mostly white. but it is one fine shooter.
It's a little heavy with the 1-1/8" across the flats but and it's not to the original specks but it is a fine shooter.
I got a full sized drawing from Dixie to make parts for this project.


Attachment 271253

[fixit]

I got one of the earlier CVA 45 caliber kentucky kits cheap (30$) at a yard sale. I also detest the brass spacer, so, I ditched the thing and installed a permanent wood connector, and made the rifle a half stock. No pics, but it didn't turn out too bad.

[abunaitoo]

Someday, I still really want to make a matchlock rifle.
Not a musket, a rifle.

[charlie b]

A friend of mine made one. He would shoot it at least a couple of times every trip to the range. He also had a flintlock that his dad had built back in the 50's. But, he liked pistols the best. C&B or single action cartridge were his weak spots. He usually loaded the cartridge pistols with round balls.