New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

[dverna]

OS OK, like I said, I do not believe you are the problem. You have a gun/ammo issue but you need to convince yourself....

If the gun shoots poorly off the bags, and I expect it will, the only thing left to do is put a known good scope on it and see if the cause is how you use iron sights.

Once you reach the stage of adding the scope, if groups are still poor, try a few different brands of ammunition. If none perform, the rifle is suspect. Some guns will not shoot....I had a .22 Hornet like that. After a month of drinking around I sold it.

Good luck!

[Pressman]

Sticking cases may be a rifle issue. Mine suddenly developed a failure to extract. It turned out there was crud under the left extractor hook that cannot be easily seen under normal light. Cleaning fixed it, or mostly so. Then the magazine began grabbing to last round on extraction. Looking around over on rimfire central I found this to be a common Savage issue that no one offered a cure for.

Ken

[OS OK]

Looking back & mulling for some clues...
(a short catch-up & review for those wondering what has transpired in this long post...)

It seems like I received this rifle early in September, a new system this 'peep & globe' ... I remember holding up these front globe inserts and wondering which one I should start with...why all the different sizes and shapes? I know nothing about this type of shooting at this point, nothing about competetion, rules & regulations...nothing. I just want to learn to use this system and get good at it.



I had already been shooting a Win. 67A and a couple others and trying to find a good ammo to use that I already had in my stash, I ordered this rifle in March but didn't get possession until September due to Covid and my drivers license expiring in early April, the DMV shut down, then opened on a limited basis serving limited rewenals...mainly commercial, it was a nightmare all summer!
I had about 8 bricks of various cheepo plinking rounds I had saved over the years so I started with the 67A and ruled out the worst of the various brands. There are some bad ones out there for sure.
I began with the MKII just getting volume down the barrel so it would break in and I might get some idea of how to handle this sight system...I banged away and retried some of the various brands of 'not too bad ammo'.



I acquired some CCI Sub Sonic during this time and in enough volume to use it first. The next step was to try to find the best target size and color for the 50 yard line...



It didn't take long before I started experimenting with the weight of the ammo thinking that this may help get this common cheap ammo to perform well, so the search began with the weight sorting.
(Looking back and realizing that I was a Neophyte with this sight...I think today that I am impressed with the CCI Subs. They may have potiential if I can ever get more!)



Then the 'tips-N-tricks' and suggestions started rolling in...I ended up being convinced that a 'rim sorting' might be the ultimate sorting, I built a handy gadget for quickly measuring the rims...



Now the first comparisons of 'weight & rim' sorting began...



continued . . .

[OS OK]

continued...

That lead next to sorting by measuring the Cartridge Over 'All Length-to-front drive band'. 'COAL/fdb' sortings and I made a handy gadget for measuring that...



This showed even more promise considering I haven't got a custom chamber.



Some targets where I started seeing the core of my groups shifting to one side or another or at various elevations along with things like this target started showing up in various strings and made me believe that one of the culprits in having good groups was me and my 'uncertain cheek weld'



One day I decided to try a target of 'unsorted' straight out of the box Aguilas...this kinda made me wonder if sorting really makes any difference at all?



Next to happen was seeing what I thought was a problem developing with the bedding or the torquing of the stock screws...I made some mods to that & kept going.
That lead to Harry's suggestion of tying the rifle down....so that's where we are today...everyone thinking it's something else besides what another guy thinks?

Today I'll check the stock again, clean the chamber with the mop and go with a dirty barrel at 25 yards off an adjustable front rest and rear sand bags.
I am almost at the conclusion that the Aguilla has already shown me that it can't do any better, with or without my help...I do not think I have a problem mechanically or quality wise with this 'common, non custom, middle of the road rifle'...unless it has to do with the bedding. This is where my mindset is this morning...

Remember, I set up a set of goals to start & even before this cheap lil'rifle was delivered to me.
*I wanted to learn this shooting technique with peep & globe and do it well.
*I wanted to do it without all sorts of aids on the bench, ie. sand bags of various designs or adjustable front mechanical devices and certainly not with a sled of some design. All that just seems wrong to me, I want to put the weight of this contest with myself... on the shooter's ability to perform with just the tripod and my hand for rear elevation control. That may seem like I am cutting myself short but it's an old'skool attitude I grew up with and it stuck, I have to live with that.
*Finally, I wanted to see if I could, at my age and with only one good eye, do a respectable job of finding affordable ammo and somehow sorting it to get consistently less than 1" groups at 50 yards.
**Then my mission is done, at least this current exercise is done...I don't intend to put her back in the safe and ignore the .22lr again.

hahaaa . . . I wonder how confused we'll be after my next posting?

"This is kinda fun, ain't it?"


PS...Pressman...thanks, I'll pull that bolt this morning and have a close look at the face of the bolt and the extractor.

[303Guy]

OS, you mention shooting the rifle in. I read that 22 barrels don't shoot in. They have to be lapped.

[OS OK]

OS, you mention shooting the in. I read that 22 barrels don't shoot in. They have to be lapped.

Well, 303Guy... there's just another example of where I did some assuming. Amazing how we go most of our lives making decisions based on assumptions!

Well...here's today's progress. What can we tell about this?

First off, I took a look at the bolt extractor and it seems to look fine...heheee...as if I were an authority on extractors!





From here I added a single piece of 10 mil. tape to the fore and aft pressure points under the receiver & then put her back together, this time only tightening by hand to what I thought felt firm. I left the torque wrench on the shop bench.
Next I set the shooting bench up with an adjustable front support and a small rear bag...



I have to admit I was going after this a little half hardheartedly until I discovered that this 'bag system' changed my 'POA' & 'cheek weld', I was no longer looking through the eye cup as before, I was low, that must have been from my physically changing position to accommodate these dang bags. I had to add a little height to the comb of the stock...



This pencil was about right so I tapped it on...This doesn't feel right...it is feeling like I'm cheating by propping the rifle up like this and being so close to the target.
Anyway, I take a target backer and set up a half-azzed target so I can see what is going to happen. From the first warmer, the cold barrel shot I started paying close attention...I was hearing advise being given in my ear that I've had right here in this post...not sure but I think I was hearing Don! "Set that rifle up on bags!" Yah...I was hearing Don.
Here's the first three spots!



OMGosh....I didn't expect to see anything like this. It's still only 25 yards & pretty close but it's a change from the last 3 'strapped down' test...this got me real interested real quick so I made up 6 more spots and here's their results...the 'POI' has changed dramatically but I'm not concerned with that just now.



Now I have mixed emotions about continuing with bags instead of my bi-pod...I think I will go with the bags for a few 50 yard trials but I'm not convinced that I want to stick with the bags...it doesn't feel like I'm doing much other that making some alignments and triggering the rifle.
Maybe this is the transition point & reality check for a simple RedNeck rifleman to shooting a bench style event and having to tote around all this extra stuff!

[dverna]

OS OK.....looking much better

You changed two things....bedding and shooting off bags....now try shooting with the bipod and keep the tape where it is.

Should be interesting. Knowing tge gun will shoot decently is a huge foundation to build on.

And you shot those groups with peep sights!!

Happy happy

[tazman]

Looks like progress to me.

[303Guy]

Maybe by strapping the rifle down you might have introduced stresses in the system. Possibly operating the bolt could be causing small changes in the stressed system. That's assuming it wasn't a bedding issue all along, which could have been. The thing with bags is the rifle is just lying there unstressed and steady with no variables from shot to shot other than the ammo itself.

[dverna]

Maybe by strapping the rifle down you might have introduced stresses in the system. Possibly operating the bolt could be causing small changes in the stressed system. That's assuming it wasn't a bedding issue all along, which could have been. The thing with bags is the rifle is just lying there unstressed and steady with no variables from shot to shot other than the ammo itself.

It could as simple as the rifle is still able to move. Think about strapping down a load on a trailer. No matter how tight you do it, after a few miles you can ratchet it down a bit more. Something like a Ransom rest works because the gun is allowed to recoil but is returned to the exact same place for the next shot.

I was going to suggest mounting two dial indicators to measure fore/aft and left/right movement but bags takes all that out of the picture.

In any case, OS OK is making progress. And we can learn from his journey.

Would love to see him post a few 1/2” groups!!

[OS OK]

This rifle came with a 'wanky' stock, I had planned on making a cheek riser to use on it.



Before I had the riser completed another Marine friend of mine gave me a stock he had his MKII in, that's the stock you see me using today.
The Kydex cheek riser has been in limbo since. This was the idea...
How it would fit the narrow, lightweight & wanky stock...



I would drill through the stock and use some specialty Allen head bolts similar to this idea here...the bolts I ordered have a much smaller profile. Not intending to use these large thumb knobs, I'd use Allen wrenches to adjust the height of the new comb.



This is the form I made to bend the Kydex on...if interested, you can see the build of this part here... Kydex Cheek Riser Build Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud84nEUEAhs



I like the feel of the narrow comb, like the feel of the pencil, I can tell when the cheek weld is repeating...the face gets very sensitive to making this weld pretty quickly.



If...and it is a 'big' if...I choose to stay with this bench style shooting, I may see about re-bending the profile of this sheet of Kydex to fit this much wider stock?
I'm not sure I can get it to fit that wide riser's comb low enough to resemble the pencil's height...

Any suggestions that do not require buying a riser? ... I intend to make whatever I'm going to use.

[samari46]

Go with standard match ammo. If you check it's loaded at or around 1100 fps plus or minus. Less wind drift compared to high speed stuff. You also may want to consider either a after market lighter trigger or spring kit. Check with these guys. MCARBO.com, they make spring kits for many different rifles bolt actions, semi's and maybe single shots. I have one of their spring kits on my M70 Winchester match rifle in 30-06. Actually reinstalled one of the nuts to slightly increase the pull as I have arthur-ritus in both hands. So maybe they offer a spring kit for the Savage accu-trigger.
Anther thing is 22's are pretty finkini about ammo. can's spell. Try as many different brands 1100fps or lower should be on the box as you can. You may find a couple that your rifle likes.Aguilla also makes a rifle match that is supposed to be fairly decent. No Remington!!!!.What with that firm out of business,will be a long time before they get there act together regarding 22 ammo. Frank

[uscra112]

One of the handicaps we are all working under is the ammo famine. Trying lots of different kinds of ammo ceases to be an option. Hence all the fussing about with sorting.

[tazman]

Oddly enough, many different types of high end match ammo is available online at various sites. Cheaper ammo, not so much.

[OS OK]

I think I'll have to talk with my local gun shop and see what the charges are for having online ammo sales sent to them and find out about the hoops I'll have'ta jump through. Grrrrrrrrr!

Has anyone seen CCI Sub Sonic 'in stock & online' anywhere?

Do you have a link to that source?

[tazman]

Sorry. I haven't seen CCI sub sonic for sale anywhere for quite a while.

[OS OK]

I backed up to the 50 again...

Kept the front adjustable rest and rear stock bag and shot a set in that configuration.
Got the sights readjusted a little.
It seems more accurate, no doubt but I don't like shooting this way, it is inconvenient.
It doesn't seem natural and it doesn't promote the skill set I want to develop. I want to shoot with a bi-pod or shoot bi-pod folded and off a tree limb or across a log.
Sorry but I just can't deal with it...I'll prolly have to settle for larger overall groups, true but I need to enjoy my time on the bench, feel like I've accomplished something and I get no joy shooting like this...



If I had plans to start shooting in some local competition, I'd get the proper rear bag and train for it but as things are, I'm just an old'Fart goofing around in his backyard having some fun with my rifle..."trying to escape from this insane world for a few minutes each day and enjoy myself."

[tazman]

I think you have shown the limits of what this rifle/ammo combination is capable of. Go back to shooting in the method you enjoy.
You won't need to use the bags again unless you try out different ammunition to improve your groups.
With the ammunition you are using, my rifles don't do any better than what you just posted. With high end match ammo I get smaller groups consistently.
A lot depends on what you have available to work with.

[dverna]

Might put the bipod back on and try shooting a couple of more groups now that the barrel is "seasoned" (before cleaning it again). I would be OK with 1" groups at 50 yards with a stock "bargain" rifle and inexpensive ammunition.

[303Guy]

OS OK, those results are great. Now comes the part where you equal those groups without the bag rest as tazman says.

Tomorrow I get to test my new target (or is it match) ammo. I have of course done nothing on my rifles over this period as in toward fitting that aperture sight. I'll report back how it goes.